Digital Amps a Warning From History

monquixote

Drew_fx said:

I've been to a bunch of gigs now where guitarists have used modellers. It seems to be a lot more difficult to get punch and thump without huge transformers and huge power valves - imho.

The gigs where they went straight to the PA (Tesseract, Monuments, Animals As Leaders) the tones just sounded thin and headphoney to me - and I'm not a valve snob! I'll use whatever sounds good and I own a Kemper.

But I'm not convinced by a 100% digital replacement system.

Do you think that applies more to metal than other genres?

Drew_TNBD

monquixote said:

Drew_fx said:

I've been to a bunch of gigs now where guitarists have used modellers. It seems to be a lot more difficult to get punch and thump without huge transformers and huge power valves - imho.

The gigs where they went straight to the PA (Tesseract, Monuments, Animals As Leaders) the tones just sounded thin and headphoney to me - and I'm not a valve snob! I'll use whatever sounds good and I own a Kemper.

But I'm not convinced by a 100% digital replacement system.

Do you think that applies more to metal than other genres?

Hmmmm.... I dunno to be honest, but I doubt it. I reckon it's probably across the board, but I don't have real evidence. But the physics of loudspeakers and poweramps... the result is just sooooooo great to listen to. And you don't get it with a digital system.

Still want to try a Blackstar ID though.

monquixote

I read a really interesting thing about the AxeFX that apparently the original one didn't have headphones as the chap who designed it thought that modelling couldn't sound realistic unless the amp was acoustically coupled to the guitar i.e. you were stood in front of a speaker. 

I used to gig with a POD into PA (did my biggest ever gig that way) and though I got some usable sounds and even had compliments I always found you were lacking in sustain and that "plays itself" quality you get when you are in front of a loud amp.

Deijavoo

sted said:

My Matchless looks like it's going nowhere despite having a great reputation for tone and build quality,

Great point. Yeah digital is the future, Matchless, build quality, valves all that nonsense is just junk now. Considering these facts

£50 FINAL OFFER.

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crunchman

ICBM said:

mellowsun said:

I thought that too, and was hoping that my AER Compact 60 would fit the bill, but it really doesn't. Nylon and acoustics sound fantastic through it but electric guitar plus modeller or preamp plus speaker sim doesn't, it lacks the 3d sound that a good combo or head plus cabs will give you.

I've probably said this before in which case I apologise for sounding like a stuck record , but there's also a serious risk of damaging either the amp or the speaker. Acoustic amps are designed for a signal with a high ratio of transient peaks to average power, and won't like being made to reproduce a much more constant, compressed electric-guitar sound with a much higher average power. I've seen an AER with a blown speaker from doing this, and several other acoustic amps damaged by either electric guitars or keyboards being put through them.

Also, you can get an active powered PA cab for less than you can a decent acoustic amp.  To be honest I'd go this route for amplifying an acoustic if I couldn't go into the PA.

JayGee

monquixote said:

57Deluxe;620960" said:

one day, the EU will ban valves...

It's so niche it's not worth doing

Speaking as somen who is generally quite sympathetic to the EU I suspect you have that the wrong way round in that if/when some unrelated (and possibly otherwise perfectly sensible and justified) piece of legislation makes valves and/or valve amps impossible to build or service economically it will be perceived  to be so niche that saving them isn't worth  doing... :-( 

Rocker

Buy what you like and to hell with its 'resale value'. Golf clubs, especially drivers, are a case in point. Last years model is virtually worthless selling wise but it still will works as a golf club. My 5 wood is over 20 years old, well marked, but I have not found a better 5 wood, so until I do, it stays in the bag. If your 10 year old amp still works, play and enjoy it. There might be better amps available but until you find one that is significantly better, use the one you have. And spend your savings on lessons....

Jeremiah

It's kind of interesting when people say that with digital, newer is always better so the old stuff always becomes obsolete, yet at the same time some people are already saying that the earlier versions of some modelling amps (Roland Cubes and Vox Valvetronix to name the obvious ones) sound better than the current models.

chrispy108

Drew_fx said:

I've been to a bunch of gigs now where guitarists have used modellers. It seems to be a lot more difficult to get punch and thump without huge transformers and huge power valves - imho.

The gigs where they went straight to the PA (Tesseract, Monuments, Animals As Leaders) the tones just sounded thin and headphoney to me - and I'm not a valve snob! I'll use whatever sounds good and I own a Kemper.

But I'm not convinced by a 100% digital replacement system.

The issue with Tesseract will have been the amount of swooshing synth etc parts on the backing track.

Protest the Hero sounded great the same night through AxeFX. The (analogue) bass amp went down, and there was a break for a few minutes, the singer actually spoke about AxeFX (amongst many other anecdotes), saying he was worried when they were first discussed because he didn't want them to sound "chugga chugga" like all the other AxeFX bands, but that he's really happy and says they sound great and consistent whatever the venue.

ThePrettyDamned

chrispy108;627115" said:

Drew_fx said:

I've been to a bunch of gigs now where guitarists have used modellers. It seems to be a lot more difficult to get punch and thump without huge transformers and huge power valves - imho.

The gigs where they went straight to the PA (Tesseract, Monuments, Animals As Leaders) the tones just sounded thin and headphoney to me - and I'm not a valve snob! I'll use whatever sounds good and I own a Kemper.

But I'm not convinced by a 100% digital replacement system.





The issue with Tesseract will have been the amount of swooshing synth etc parts on the backing track.

Protest the Hero sounded great the same night through AxeFX. The (analogue) bass amp went down, and there was a break for a few minutes, the singer actually spoke about AxeFX (amongst many other anecdotes), saying he was worried when they were first discussed because he didn't want them to sound "chugga chugga" like all the other AxeFX bands, but that he's really happy and says they sound great and consistent whatever the venue.

I've seen pth and trivium with modellers and both sounded astonishingly good. No lack of punch for either.

However, they clearly know what they're doing!

Drew_TNBD

Interesting. I'd like to see a band that uses a modeller that isn't a djenty band.

meltedbuzzbox

Drew_fx said:

Interesting. I'd like to see a band that uses a modeller that isn't a djenty band.

Metallica have made the jump haven't they?

chrispy108

He wants to see a band, not go to a museum

steamabacus

Drew_fx said:

Interesting. I'd like to see a band that uses a modeller that isn't a djenty band.

The latest line up of King Crimson is using modellers playing some pretty diverse music.

Fripp is using AxeFX and Jakszyk (gtr) and Levin (bass) are using Kempers.

monquixote

I think dweezil and vai were using axefx on zappa plays zappa

DrJazzTap

I heard that Buddy Guy was switching over to an Axe FX2 and a TC G system......maybe

Heartfeltdawn

DrJazzTap said:

I heard that Buddy Guy was switching over to an Axe FX2 and a TC G system......maybe

That's nothing. George Formby swears by Kemper. 

EricTheWeary

monquixote said:

I think dweezil and vai were using axefx on zappa plays zappa

I'm not sure they were, Dweezil made the jump to axefx for the later tours of Zappa Plays Zappa. I think he was still probably using amps ( Cornfords?) when he was filmed with Vai. He also uses two Axefx as he says they don't have enough processing power. This is a fairly recent rundown of his Axefx set up,I hadn't seen this before
This is a recent live clip ( you may have to do some FFing to find any prominent guitar bits)

monquixote

Yeah the tour video I've got of them he's playing a Cornford.

rsvmark

No one has mentioned speaker technology yet. 

Let's take TV sound. You can buy pretty respectable 'sound bars' that have tiny drivers and model 5.1 surround without rear speakers. They may not be perfect, some are better than others etc but they are out there.

My lad bought a tiny Bose Bluetooth speaker for his phone and its is no bigger that 6" long, and that puts out a decent sound,. The Beats equivalent was shite.

Anyway, point being, is that the traditionalists may rely on cabs of a variety of configurations up to 4x12s but they are big and heavy. I am assuming the digital stuff goes straight into a desk. 

Is the next thing the introduction of smaller, highly efficient cabs thus making smaller heads/combos more attractive?

Just a thought