Modern vehicles are just so much shite

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  • ROOGROOG Frets: 554
    edited October 2013
    I have owned an original VW Beetle, SAABs, Fords from the 70's, a Vauxhall, Citroens, BMWs a jag and so on and as time has passed the later models have become more reliable and less rust prone. I would also agree that they have become more and more frustrating to understand. My current car is a hybrid, I have my fingers crossed!

     

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  • Gone are the days when you would stick tubes in your ears to balance carboretas.sniff but I leave that to hobby cars now. Lease a new car and change it every three years on a zero cost servicing plan and you never have a problem.
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  • stickyfiddlestickyfiddle Frets: 26746
    Fuck all this old car bollocks. My car has Bluetooth, which is basically magic.
    The Assumptions - UAE party band for all your rock & soul desires
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  • vizviz Frets: 10643
    Ah that would be cheating.
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • WolftoneWolftone Frets: 85
    edited October 2013
    I think the biggest single difference between my 1975 Marina 1800 TC coupe and my 2008 SAAB is the way that modern cars don't rust. I have seen many old cars going off to the breakers without the slightest bit of rust on them.

    The most annoying (unnecessary?) things on modern cars are;
    • Diesel particulate filters
    • Catalytic converters
    • EGR valves
    • Dual mass flywheels
    • Electric handbrakes
    • Headlight bulbs that require the front of the car to be dismantled to change
    I just had a thousand pound bill for a new flywheel and clutch on our SAAB. A freind of mine was charged £1200 for a diesel particulate filter. All that said modern cars are ace with their excellent performance and frugal economy.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71952
    Wolftone said:
    • Headlight bulbs that require the front of the car to be dismantled to change
    Having read about this problem on the Renault Scenic I was pleased to discover that it's a myth, at least on this car. If you work out how to get your hand in through the slightly awkward space behind the light you can change the bulb in about a minute.

    What I wonder is whether the garages know this too and still charge the 1.5hrs labour for taking the front end off...

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • One answer to the high cost of repairs is to take out the extended warranty. My daughter paid 250 quid for her new Audi A1 to extend the full warranty to 5 years. The other thing is servicing costs / intervals are more economic. Yes if they go wrong out of warranty it can be expensive. As to bulb changes , etc Halfords are the place to go. My friend has a Porche which took an hour and a half to fit a headlight bulb , cost 5 quid !
    For me old cars (or bikes) are for pleasure on a sunny Sunday , new cars are for when I have to get places on time.
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  • axisusaxisus Frets: 28280
    My first 7 cars were minis and I loved them! What I liked was that you could do everything yourself. I must have done every possible job over the years, including replacing subframes, fitting disk brakes, fitting twin fuel tanks, rebuilding engine, swap camshaft, clutchplate, countless head and carb swaps, Even removed an engine twice with no lifting gear!!!!

    Ahhh, them were the days ......
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 24601
    @Bertie is right. Rose tinted specs ... my first car was a 1963 Mini. Very basic and easy to fix but not comfortable or reliable. From the late 70s I had company cars. The first were a series of Nissans which changed the face of British motoring. They were built like tanks and were reliable even though they were ugly. I had a Cortina [pile of shite] a Capri [looked cool but 0 to 60 was measured in days not seconds] followed by an Austin Montego [looked cool but was unreliable] a couple of Ford XR3i's which were great fun to drive, a couple of Sierra XR4 x 4's [built like tanks, excellent handling with the four wheel drive] a Mondeo Ghia X and then BMWs. I need to replace my car so I will just get another BMW. My wife's new Mercedes has electronic everything which can be distracting.

    The only problem these days is the fact that a relatively minor shunt results in your car being written off. It's not the body panels but all the sensors, airbags and other electronic gubbins.

    Remember, it's easier to criticise than create!
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71952
    edited October 2013
    One answer to the high cost of repairs is to take out the extended warranty.
    I did this on the Scenic and it cost me money - it was the cowboys who the warranty company insisted on using who buggered the electric handbrake on it... after first claiming they'd fixed the stuck caliper by just freeing it (so it stuck again the next day), they then used the wrong part, which wasn't apparent for about three years - out of warranty by then - until it seized the cable, resulting in the whole lot having to be changed. If I'd not had the warranty I would have just gone to my usual mechanic in the first place, and it would have cost less than half as much overall - not even counting the cost of the extended warranty. I won't make that mistake again.

    OK, if you're unlucky and something really expensive fails, then of course it would have been better to have the warranty - but if you think about it, on average that wont be true since if it was, the warranty companies wouldn't make money. Given the reliability of modern cars in general I would think you'll need to be more than usually unlucky for it to pay.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • ICBM said:
    One answer to the high cost of repairs is to take out the extended warranty.
    I did this on the Scenic and it cost me money - it was the cowboys who the warranty company insisted on using who buggered the electric handbrake on it... after first claiming they'd fixed the stuck caliper by just freeing it (so it stuck again the next day), they then used the wrong part, which wasn't apparent for about three years - out of warranty by then - until it seized the cable, resulting in the whole lot having to be changed. If I'd not had the warranty I would have just gone to my usual mechanic in the first place, and it would have cost less than half as much overall - not even counting the cost of the extended warranty. I won't make that mistake again.

    OK, if you're unlucky and something really expensive fails, then of course it would have been better to have the warranty - but if you think about it, on average that wont be true since if it was, the warranty companies wouldn't make money. Given the reliability of modern cars in general I would think you'll need to be more than usually unlucky for it to pay.
    I am sorry to hear that. What I was talking about was taking the manufacturors extended warranty. In fact some now throw in up to 7 years and most will sell you a very cheap 5 year 90,000 mile warranty that is repaired in their dealers with genuine parts.
    My car is fairly complicated as it is a Audi Quattro and I paid £500 for the 5 year warranty.
     
     Of course this only really applies to buying new. I understand that some of the extended warranty co's are sharks (like the mobile insurance co's).

    I must admit I tend to avoid french cars. Over the years I bought a number of Nissan Micra's . They were brilliant ...until renault took over . The Micra I had made by them was not welded together correctly and creaked going around corners . So a car that was only days old had to go back to be re welded !  I now drive a "German make"  (engine made in Hungary , assembled in Belgium !).

    Going back to old cars, I used to rebuild them. I have re welded body parts , rebuilt engines /gearboxes/ transmissions . In fact I used to race motorbikes , and one of the bikes I owned was the previous years works machine. No manuals , parts hard to find, and some parts non existant , so if broken had to be rebuilt manually. So I have done my share of broken nails and greasy hands , but have no desire to go back to that.

    As an aside , I had a big crash at Brands , I came off going around Clearways and hit the straw bales (they are not soft!) When I woke up my bike was a mess. The Magnesium alloy water pump was a write off and the expansion chamber destroyed. There was no way to buy spares , and none of these items in the spares kit that came with the bike. I was lucky ,one of the other riders was a R and D engineer for Fords. My bike was taken into Ford's R and D as an engineering project for the apprentices who had two weeks before my next race. I am sure they enjoyed working on a full race Honda , and it just cost me a few beers .....  Ahh memories
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  • boogiemanboogieman Frets: 12314
    I can remember regularly grovelling under the bonnet of my Ford Anglia for hours, trying to get the fecker to start. If it was wet or cold, it would always play up. Give me modern cars any day. Get in, start, go.
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  • hywelghywelg Frets: 4302
    I'd rather own a leaking 76 Chevy Nova that got twelve miles to the gallon on the rare days it would start, than a Ford fucking beigemobile Galaxy.
    I'd rather get where I'm going. With clean hands.
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  • chillidoggychillidoggy Frets: 17136
    boogieman said:
    I can remember regularly grovelling under the bonnet of my Ford Anglia for hours, trying to get the fecker to start. If it was wet or cold, it would always play up. Give me modern cars any day. Get in, start, go.
    I used to canvas other college students to see if anyone wanted a lift to college. The downside was they'd all have to push my Anglia down the road to get it started. It was sometimes the only way to get it going.


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  • Well would you believe it. Just as my van decided not to run for no readily apparent reason (other than some silly fault code in the "management system"), it decided to run on Saturday, and it brought me to work today. I'm pleased that the emissions from the zorst after a 20 mile run appeared to be normal (no smoke, clouds of soot, or steam). Will check liquid levels and the inside of the oil filler cap at lunchtime. However I have no confidence that the "management system" will continue to behave itself, I'm just waiting now for the next stupid excuse to shut the engine down.

    After a Saturday afternoon's crawling around looking for loose connector blocks under the dashboard my back is now killing me. I had tried to take the drivers seat out, but as you might expect 3 out of the 4 bolts were removed with considerable difficulty, and the 4th flatly refused to budge. It may be argued that such problems would exist on any vehicle regardless of the age of the design, but if they had used ordinary bolts with a hexagonal top on them and given them sufficient clearance, I could have used a proper wrench instead of the poxy little star shaped Torx thing and got a lot more purchase on the bolt. I put the other 3 back,  with some heavy oil dribbled down the threads so they will come out easier next time.
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
    Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
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  • FX_MunkeeFX_Munkee Frets: 2477
    IMO there was a "sweet spot" around the early nineties, especially with Japanese cars. When they introduced the OBD1 (onboard diagnostics) system. The ECU (computer) just controlled the fuel and spark as well as making sure the car idled properly. As well as just logging any faults. These cars had relatively modern engine designs, and the advantages of ECU control but none of the disadvantages of it (limp home mode etc.).
    BTW if you want to run diagnostics (find and reset faults) on your modern car (OBDII) get yourself something like this
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ELM-327-1-3-1-4-1-5-usb-new-version-for-2013-laptop-car-diagnostic-cable-OBD-CAN-/321231997688
    If you can operate a PC you can use this.
    Shot through the heart, and you’re to blame, you give love a bad name. Not to mention archery tuition.
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  • ROOGROOG Frets: 554
    edited October 2013

    I used to 'enjoy' fixing my own cars, much like others here, I had a mix of old Fords, Vauxhalls, a SAAB (nice car to work on), but it is quite obvious that; proper design, organised manufacturing techniques, better tolerances, and materials have given rise to cars that just don't break down as much. In recent times I have had a few company cars and where they have had problems they often seem to cause the dealers trouble too, such are the complexities in pinning down the cause of the problem, perhaps they are too easily distracted by the diagnostic codes theses systems spit out? I currently own an old Fiat based motorhome, that has relatively simple  mechanics and is an interesting balance between electronic control with simple design, its just like working on an old Ford, but better!

    My current irritation with cars concern the engine 'streamlining' techniques, where they remove the 'extra' drive belt to save money weight and energy, but when it breaks it takes out the timing belt and causes all manner of chaos. I know chain drives aren't perfect and use more energy, but from memory I had fewer problems with those, Water pumps which run off the alternator belt rather than the timing belt. I read of loads of cases where the water pump seizes and takes out the timing belt. Presumably all in pursuit of better mpg, lower CO2 and lower cost? 

    Perhaps manufactures will start to consider the risks of these systems rather than rely on rigorous service intervals and owners and garages doing what they are told to. Sustainable design should allow for some leeway and stop a simple component failure causing disproportionate damage in another, practically unrelated system.    

     

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  • Agreed @ROOG. I'm all for subsystems which make the machine more reliable, but if they increase the damage done when they fail, or they render the whole machine useless because of one operational parameter being a bit out of whack, then they're defeating their own objective.
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
    Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
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  • boogiemanboogieman Frets: 12314
    edited October 2013
    Sadly you're assuming that manufacturers actually give a fuck after they've sold you the car. They are only after profit. They take the cheapest way out when they design the thing or have to make it fit legislation.
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  • boogieman said:
    Sadly you're assuming that manufacturers actually give a fuck after they've sold you the car. They are only after profit. They take the cheapest way out when they design the thing or have to make it fit legislation.
    I know they don't. But I do!
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
    Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
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