Endorsements ... do you care?

Tex Mexico

FWIW, on the flipside, in my other job I see a lot of bands who are about at the lowest level there is in terms of fame and fortune, and  although none of them for obvious reasons have anything like an endorsement, frequently I see their demo CDs, and there, in the bumf, almost without fail: "Satanic Fart play Gibson, Fender, Marshall, Orange, ESP, BlackMachine, Taylor, Mesa Boogie..." Sometimes they list their cables, strings, picks. I've even seen one namecheck Dunlop guitar polish.

The irony is a lot of these bands turn up to shows with Line6 spiders, playing low-end Schecters, and have to borrow cables and stuff from other bands because theirs don't work.

Conclusion is that bands are more often than not prepared to do anything to at least appear to have been legitimised. It's why they still get excited about having their six-track EP reviewed on page 249 of Metal Hammer. "We're in this issue of Metal Hammer!" "What, on the cover?" "Uh... well. no..." I know a guy who was casting around for endorsements (for no good reason, his band have about twelve followers on facebook), and Kramer guitars basically said "if you buy and play one of our guitars we'll put your band name on a page of our website that no one looks at". So he bought some shit Kramer at full price, drew his band's logo on it and now he swaggers around going "hey dude, look at my signature model".

But you know, on the other hand, if someone told me Mike McCready from Pearl Jam really liked a pickup or something, I wouldn't rush out and buy it but it would make me more prone to consider it if I was after a pickup, because he really knows his stuff and I like his sound. So there's that.

chrisj1602

dindude said:

JookyChap said

I saw this a while back which is an honest approach I think.

Interesting that they demand that bands have original material yet bang out copies of Strats Tele's Prs Ibanez Gibbo's etc.

Back on the original topic, I think you can tell when an endorsement is the real deal or is, look, we've put a p90 in our regular guitar after six months of research with x guitarist (Vintage, Fret King, that's you)

Just read that, then had a look at the product range - the photos are all stock Fender, Gibson etc photos with the logos removed! Cheeky b*****ds!

ThePrettyDamned

chrisj1602;62791" said:

dindude said:



JookyChap said

I saw this a while back which is an honest approach I think.










Interesting that they demand that bands have original material yet bang out copies of Strats Tele's Prs Ibanez Gibbo's etc.

Back on the original topic, I think you can tell when an endorsement is the real deal or is, look, we've put a p90 in our regular guitar after six months of research with x guitarist (Vintage, Fret King, that's you)





Just read that, then had a look at the product range - the photos are all stock Fender, Gibson etc photos with the logos removed! Cheeky b*****ds!

What a joke!

We should email Gibson (no, don't, they'll sue everything).

martinw

dindude said:

JookyChap said

I saw this a while back which is an honest approach I think.

Interesting that they demand that bands have original material yet bang out copies of Strats Tele's Prs Ibanez Gibbo's etc.

 

And the bands are queuing up for their cheap guitars. It's outrageous. Why do musicians, whose stock in trade is intellectual property, have such low standards when it comes to someone else's IP?

Tex Mexico

martinw said:

And the bands are queuing up for their cheap guitars. It's outrageous. Why do musicians, whose stock in trade is intellectual property, have such low standards when it comes to someone else's IP?

As I believe I may have said last time we spoke in person (I think I may have even gigged with one of your amps - some socialist club somewhere?), musos on the whole are a bunch of feckless freeloading arseholes.

martinw

Tex Mexico said:

musos on the whole are a bunch of feckless freeloading arseholes.

Lol.

Dave_Mc

TheGuitarWeasel said:

I had a bad experience with a magazine review ... I've detailed before ... but the crook editor had free pickups out of me ... raved about them... strung me along for six months saying he was sure he could find room for the review ... said how he was going to equip his studio guitars with them ... then requested more pickups ...
No review ... ever came out ... no pickups ever came back ... complete rip off of, an at that time, very new business.
I learned my lesson.

I think I remember you saying that before. That's ridiculous.

Kinda makes a mockery of some magazines' claims that they do reviews in a certain way to avoid hurting businesses when they'll do that...

DeeTee

Ash - The question is, do you think giving away some of your pickups at cost or free will increase your exposure? Will it lead to more business, more reviews etc? If so, do it. If not, don't.

OilCityPickups

I think I've developed a policy for future use ... I didn't really have one before ... just a gut reaction ... and as OCP is expanding at a fairly rapid rate at the moment I think I needed to get things straight.
Thanks for all your Ideas and input ... it's not every manufacturer who has a ready made 'think tank' of potential customers on tap. I'm sure more manufacturers should try this!

Anyway, I will be extending my (not very huge)  'trade builders' discount to include 'developing artists': that is, UK musicians/bands I feel 'fit' with the OCP ethos and are going somewhere. I will work to develop 'signature' models if that is what artists want, but there will be no freebees. I will help out with web exposure via my own site etc ... but essentially nobody gets a free ride.
I'm too small for tiered systems

digitalscream

That sounds like a good approach. Of course, there's no reason you can't bend the rules in specific cases; you can't expect yourself to think of every possibility right off the bat.

OilCityPickups

You're absolutely right ... but as things expand you have to put a set of rough templates in to 'straighten' your thinking on things
It's a different subject but another symptom of expansion ... but orders are flowing in so swiftly at the moment I had to start using a proper work-flow for progressing orders around the workshop (some will be at different stages at different times etc. So I hit on the simple expedient of every customer gets an 8x8 inch poly 'bin' with their name on ... this has a pocket for the paperwork ... and an area where the gathered parts and completed assemblies are put. Allows me not to be absent minded

ChrisMusic

TheGuitarWeasel said:   I think I've developed a policy for future use ...

... it's not every manufacturer who has a ready made 'think tank' of potential customers on tap. I'm sure more manufacturers should try this!... but essentially nobody gets a free ride.

... I'm too small for tiered systems

Astute observations and decisions Ash.  Sounds like that fits well with who you are and where the company is going.

Policy decisions always sound like a bit of a straight jacket, but if you are flexible in your approach the give an essential structure to your endeavours, and make life much easier, think of the human body without a structural framework (skeleton) yuck !

Thinking through stuff before you actually hit the hurdles gives a much better and more relaxed perspective, and allows you to react to external circumstances much quicker, as you largely just match the pattern of the "issue" with the pattern of the "policy", making most decisions a breeze.

I recon having a rough set of criteria for a tiered system, if only in your head, would allow you to test each situation on merit, and maybe better prepare you if you ever decide to implement one.  You are never too small to think big.  

Oh, and it sounds like your new workflow should save a few frazzled nerves, anything that makes life easier is cool by me.

(All comments IMHO  

digitalscream said:   That sounds like a good approach. Of course, there's no reason you can't bend the rules in specific cases; you can't expect yourself to think of every possibility right off the bat.

Good call @digitalscream, prepared flexibility applies to pretty much everything in life too  

GavC

Hello, newbie alert

OK - as the Artist Liaison Manager for JHS (Fret-King and Vintage) I thought I'd respond to a few of the comments on here

1) No-one know who their endorsees are.

Gordon Gitrap, Quireboys, Saxon, Bonafide, Procul Harum, Midge Ure, Big Country, Mamas Boys, John Parr, Jerry Donahue, Queensryche, UFO, not to mention guitarists from Robbie Williams and Rod Stewarts bands - is everyone on here under 25? ;-)

I'll be the first to admit that a lot of them are not exactly, ahem, household names or currently topping the charts, and sure, I'd love Steve Vai or Synester Gates to take shine to our guitars but as far as I'm concerned the fact that the guys above are are happy to go out and play to audiences of between 200 and 30,000 people using our sub £500 guitars says a hell of a lot more than people who take their £2k signature models out...and we show our appreciation by including them in our adverts - something you never see the 'big two' companies do - yes, I know they don't need the publicity because they have 60 years of history doing their marketing for them 

2) Apart from signature artists, no-one gets a free guitar, they get a discount. Please note before you send me an email ;-)

3) 'Oh the signature models are just stock guitars with a pickup change' Absolutely untrue. Point me a guitar in the Fret-King range that has nearly the same spec as the Giltrap, Donahue, Colwell or Whitehorn models. With Vintage its a different matter because its usually based on that artists fave guitar. But you know the only reason we are still stuck with such very familiar designs is because you guys (guitarists) are such a conservative bunch! (Back to the 60 years of history as a marketing tool again)  

I don't have any hard or fast rules on who we will work with. I try to get younger unheard bands/players on board if they look interesting or like they might be going places. Often these guys are already playing one of our guitars, which is what I look for. I also take on a lot of studio/session players as long as they are working with a few names.

I get loads of emails asking for endorsement, most of which are just angling for free stuff and don't come back once they realise they wont get it for nothing. A lot of requests are just ridiculous - 

"Hi, I'm Jack and I've been playing guitar for 6 months, if you give me a guitar once I get in a band I will tell everyone how great your guitars are at our gigs"

Dont laugh this actually happens - kids today are so mesmerised by the endorser thing that they approach the whole system arse about face!

So back to the original thread, do I think endorsements work? Of course they do (he says in a moment of enlightened self interest for his job) - I'm not suggesting that you will go out and buy that particular guitarists model just because you've seen an ad, but it certainly helps with the whole brand awareness and gives people a degree of faith in the brand if they know certain people are working with them.

OK thats it. Happy hunting!

GavC

Gordon Gitrap. LOL sorry Gordon!

digitalscream

GavC said:

Gordon Gitrap, Quireboys, Saxon, Bonafide, Procul Harum, Midge Ure, Big Country, Mamas Boys, John Parr, Jerry Donahue, Queensryche, UFO, not to mention guitarists from Robbie Williams and Rod Stewarts bands - is everyone on here under 25? ;-)

Out of curiosity, who uses your guitars in Queensryche? To my knowledge, Michael Wilton uses ESP guitars and Parker Lundgren uses Gibsons...I could be wrong, mind.

EDIT: Never mind, seems Parker's gone to Fret King. How long's he been with you guys?

GavC

He's a quite recent edition, he has a Semitone Deluxe atm

ThePrettyDamned

GavC said:

3) 'Oh the signature models are just stock guitars with a pickup change' Absolutely untrue. Point me a guitar in the Fret-King range that has nearly the same spec as the Giltrap, Donahue, Colwell or Whitehorn models. With Vintage its a different matter because its usually based on that artists fave guitar. But you know the only reason we are still stuck with such very familiar designs is because you guys (guitarists) are such a conservative bunch! (Back to the 60 years of history as a marketing tool again)  

Fret King are blessed in a way with having relatively original designs.  But a lot of sig guitars ARE just a 'normal' guitar with a bigger price tag and different pickups.  The conservative attitude is why a lot of people hate Zakk Wylde guitars - they're ugly, to us, but to him, they go with his Harley collection and, it is after all, HIS guitar.  The ultimate in terms of tasteless is the Justin Hawkins sig, but again, at least it IS a sig guitar.  Contrast to the Bonamassa LP, which is a...er...Gold top Les Paul with different pickups and locking tuners. 

@Bucket had a thread recently about the Japanese ESP/Edwards sig guitars.  Now THEY know how to do a sig guitar ;-)

ToneControl

I just think the full page Vintage ads look like ads when I were a lad, and most of the guys in them are pros even older than me who are holding a lower-price guitar - when you know they must own plenty of pro ones

My guess is the ads would possibly appeal to someone returning to playing guitar in their 40s who wanted a budget copy of a classic. Is that the intention? 

shuikit

As I'm in the 'I don't care' camp, It annoys me that by purchasing something from a company that I'm also subsidising or maybe even paying for the endorsee.

ddlooping

Welcome to  theFB  @GavC.  

GavC said:

Gordon Gitrap. LOL sorry Gordon!

If you place your mouse anywhere over your comment a little black gear symbol will appear on the right.
 Click it and click "Edit", you can then correct your mistake.