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  • Ashes 2017: England sending one of 'worst ever batting line-ups' to Australia
    The Australian batting line up is even worse aside from the top 3.  

    Australia are getting destroyed in India atm, their middle order is incredibly fragile. 
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  • In other news, Matt Maynard is leaving Somerset. Hooo-bloody-ray!
     On the subject of Somerset, they have just beaten Middlesex and will be in division 1 next year.

    @Heartfeltdawn - have they got the young batsmen coming through?  They bat deep with the Overtons, but they are a bit like England.  There are a couple of gaping holes in the top order.  WIth Tres on the decline, they look very fragile.

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  • Ashes 2017: England sending one of 'worst ever batting line-ups' to Australia
    The Australian batting line up is even worse aside from the top 3.  

    Australia are getting destroyed in India atm, their middle order is incredibly fragile. 
    That's ok if we can get through Warner and Smith.
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 11491
    edited September 2017
    crunchman said:

    In other news, Matt Maynard is leaving Somerset. Hooo-bloody-ray!
     On the subject of Somerset, they have just beaten Middlesex and will be in division 1 next year.

    @Heartfeltdawn - have they got the young batsmen coming through?  They bat deep with the Overtons, but they are a bit like England.  There are a couple of gaping holes in the top order.  WIth Tres on the decline, they look very fragile.

    There are some young batsmen coming through but around the West Country you'd be looking at Gloucestershire as having the young batsmen with the greatest potential. James Bracey, George Hankins, Chris Dent and a couple of others. The loss of Adam Hose was a big turning point for the senior management and I think his loss is one of two things that did for Matt Maynard in the end. The other is that Somerset didn't manage to get an overseas player after Dean Elgar left to play with South Africa. there's no too many Kolpakers in Taunton either so it's quite a homegrown team. Devon has been a decent recruiting ground, most notably Dominic Bess. Bowling is the Somerset strength now. 

    Next year has to be Tres's last year. It's remarkable that he is still going. I remember being at school and seeing him win the Cricketer young player of the year competition and then playing him in an early season fixture at club level. Fielding at backward point to him on a cold day with a shite left arm seamer dropping it short was no fun and I broke my thumb dizzy I hope he goes out on a high and doesn't have one of those retirement seasons where everything fades away. 


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  • Ashes 2017: England sending one of 'worst ever batting line-ups' to Australia
    The Australian batting line up is even worse aside from the top 3.  

    Australia are getting destroyed in India atm, their middle order is incredibly fragile. 
    Who doesn't get destroyed in India in ODI cricket? IT's why they're number one. 

    The top four for Australia in the Ashes is sorted: Renshaw, Warner, Smith, Handscomb. Five and six is still a lottery. Glenn Maxwell isn't a Test player as yet. Hilton Cartwright cam,e in alongside Maxwell for the last Test in Bangladesh. Matt Wade is simply shit on chips. The spin department is Lyon's all the way but there's no idea yet of who's going to be fit for the seam attack. 

    Really the Australians are in the same boat as us for the same reasons as us: all the focus is on shitty hit and giggle cricket, the first class game has been diluted and thrown at opposing ends of the season, and so the players simply aren't there. 
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  • Gutted that Northants won't be promoted despite potentially having won nine games out of 14 -- pretty sure that would have made them Div 2 champions by a mile in any previous season. It's especially galling considering how many Div 1 sides have been crap this year. If there was any justice then at least four teams would be going down.

    I hope Hampshire get relegated though. The only difference between their financial position and Durham's is that they have a rich sugar daddy. This season he's stuffed the side with South African Kolpak players and they still haven't achieved anything.

    And yes wtf is going on with that Ashes selection? Shouldn't we be looking at people like Dan Lawrence, Dominic Sibley and Nick Browne instead of returning to perpetual nearly-weres like Vince?


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  • Stuckfast said:
    Gutted that Northants won't be promoted despite potentially having won nine games out of 14 -- pretty sure that would have made them Div 2 champions by a mile in any previous season. It's especially galling considering how many Div 1 sides have been crap this year. If there was any justice then at least four teams would be going down.

    I hope Hampshire get relegated though. The only difference between their financial position and Durham's is that they have a rich sugar daddy. This season he's stuffed the side with South African Kolpak players and they still haven't achieved anything.

    And yes wtf is going on with that Ashes selection? Shouldn't we be looking at people like Dan Lawrence, Dominic Sibley and Nick Browne instead of returning to perpetual nearly-weres like Vince?



    It's not just Bransgrove at Hampshire that got them there: it's the help from the taxpayer in the form of Eastleigh Council. 

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2011/dec/16/hampshire-rose-bowl-eastleigh-borough-council

    When you see that happening and what happened at Glamorgan with the council writing off their debts, the way Durham were treated utterly stinks. 

    We shouldn't automatically look at young players and decide that someone like Vince is a failure forever. Go back 15 years and you'll see a lot of Australians get dumped early, go off back to their states and to their county teams in England, work hard, and come back renewed and better players. Matt Hayden would be a perfect example. Vince has been picked because we have a lack of other people and because he's got some limited international experience. We could pick a load of youngsters, get stuffed 5-0, and you end up ruining them. I know the fanciful idea is that you take youngsters and it makes them better players if they get stuffed: for most of them, it doesn't. Look at Scott Borthwick last time. Everything's changed since then, from his county to his batting slot to the amount of bowling he now doesn't do. The time to get the really young players in is after the Ashes (and Vince is still 26: hardly an old timer!). 




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  • Really the Australians are in the same boat as us for the same reasons as us: all the focus is on shitty hit and giggle cricket, the first class game has been diluted and thrown at opposing ends of the season, and so the players simply aren't there. 
    The Australian team hasn't been great in white ball cricket recently, the Champions Trophy was a bit of an embarrassment.  At least the England team have improved in white ball cricket a huge amount recently.  

    Even though I think Australia will win the Ashes, I don't think their team is one of the strongest for a while.  I agree that they are in a similar position to the England team, but a reverse of sorts where the Australian team has a settled top 4 and an unsettled middle order, with the England team's top 4 having a lot of question marks but the middle order possibly being the most effective in cricket. 
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  • I don't like the way the Durham team is being gutted now either.  That isn't right.

    Stoneman and Borthwick have already moved South, and there is the news this week about Onions and Jennings moving to Lancs.  Onions is at the end of his career, but Jennings has to be someone they would have wanted to build around.

    Looking at the way things are going, I don't see a great future for the game.
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  • crunchman said:
    I don't like the way the Durham team is being gutted now either.  That isn't right.

    Stoneman and Borthwick have already moved South, and there is the news this week about Onions and Jennings moving to Lancs.  Onions is at the end of his career, but Jennings has to be someone they would have wanted to build around.

    Looking at the way things are going, I don't see a great future for the game.
    Agree.  I think the treatment of Durham has been horrific and it seems it will take them a long time to rebuild.  

    Did anyone see them play live?  The only times I did were on the T20 tournament and the whole team just looked so short on confidence. 
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  • Totally agree re Durham. When you think about what they've achieved in such a short space of time, and how productive they've been for England, it's shocking treatment.

    Maybe the likes of Lawrence and Browne aren't ready for the Ashes yet, but where is the evidence that Vince or Ballance have sorted out their problems?
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  • Stuckfast said:
    Totally agree re Durham. When you think about what they've achieved in such a short space of time, and how productive they've been for England, it's shocking treatment.

    Maybe the likes of Lawrence and Browne aren't ready for the Ashes yet, but where is the evidence that Vince or Ballance have sorted out their problems?
    There is no evidence.  Vince might be able to long term.  Given that Ballance has refused to change his technique, he should have been ditched.

    I know he has been awful this season, but they would have been better going back to Ian Bell.  At least he has the technique to bat at 3.  If he fails, then he won't have done any worse than the others are likely to, and you don't wreck someone like Lawrence.
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  • Oooh look:

    "Ryan Sidebottom finally gets James Vince to play an expansive shot but the England batsman only succeeds in edging the Australian seamer behind."

    He's done it again!
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  • Really the Australians are in the same boat as us for the same reasons as us: all the focus is on shitty hit and giggle cricket, the first class game has been diluted and thrown at opposing ends of the season, and so the players simply aren't there. 
    The Australian team hasn't been great in white ball cricket recently, the Champions Trophy was a bit of an embarrassment.  At least the England team have improved in white ball cricket a huge amount recently.  

    Even though I think Australia will win the Ashes, I don't think their team is one of the strongest for a while.  I agree that they are in a similar position to the England team, but a reverse of sorts where the Australian team has a settled top 4 and an unsettled middle order, with the England team's top 4 having a lot of question marks but the middle order possibly being the most effective in cricket. 



    What exactly was embarrassing for Australia in the Champions Trophy? They had two games rained out, one of which they were well on the way to winning against Bangladesh, and lost the third game to England on Duckworth Lewis. Irritating for sure but hardly them being crushed and humiliated out of sight. They haven't been great in white ball cricket overseas (the stats were up during the current India match. Not pretty reading) but neither have we. Beating the Windies away in 3 games and one consolation win in India doesn't make us light years ahead of them. When you look at ODI stats now, home advantage is a real thing. Most tours don't give players enough time to acclimatise. This is born out at Test and ODI level. This is why even Bangladesh can beat us in a Test series and draw against Australia. 

    The Australia team has a settled top 4 now they've finally settled on Renshaw to open with Warner and Handscomb has gotten some runs (interesting that, of all the Aussies to vie for that middle order slot, he's been the most successful and spent more time in county cricket than many of his rivals. The old county finishing school method hasn't fallen apart yet). 

    The England middle order is effective and one wonders why they haven't tried people in different areas. I've said this for Buttler and for Bairstow: get the ruddy gloves off them. Both have so much batting ability that I'd want them to focus entirely on that. If Bairstow is now considered good enough to open at ODI level and isn't needed with the gloves, then surely there is a case for removing the gloves from him, giving them to Foakes, and pushing Bairstow up the order? Having a man with his talent swanning around in the lower order is daft. Yes, Gilchrist batted down the order: he had a rather good top and middle order before him. YJB on the other hand has a constantly varying middle order. 
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  • Agree on Bairstow.  Play him as a batsman.  Sangakarra averaged about 20 more when he didn't have the gloves.  Stewart averaged about 12 more.

    Bairstow would fix number 5 but I'm not convinced he's a number 3 though.  Other left field option if you play Bairstow as a batsman is Davies as your keeper.  He opens the batting for Lancashire while keeping.  Can't be much worse than the other batting options.
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  • The England middle order is effective and one wonders why they haven't tried people in different areas. I've said this for Buttler and for Bairstow: get the ruddy gloves off them. Both have so much batting ability that I'd want them to focus entirely on that. If Bairstow is now considered good enough to open at ODI level and isn't needed with the gloves, then surely there is a case for removing the gloves from him, giving them to Foakes, and pushing Bairstow up the order? Having a man with his talent swanning around in the lower order is daft. Yes, Gilchrist batted down the order: he had a rather good top and middle order before him. YJB on the other hand has a constantly varying middle order. 
    Foakes looks a decent keeper.  Bayliss said that he'd like to see Root bat at 3 and I myself agree that Bairstow should be batting higher up the order say at 4 - that'd make the top order a lot more stable. 
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  • 2 points split 4 clubs for relegation - Middlesex down 1 year after winning eh title -
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  • crunchman said:
    I don't like the way the Durham team is being gutted now either.  That isn't right.

    Stoneman and Borthwick have already moved South, and there is the news this week about Onions and Jennings moving to Lancs.  Onions is at the end of his career, but Jennings has to be someone they would have wanted to build around.

    Looking at the way things are going, I don't see a great future for the game.
    Neither do I. The financial demands keep going up and up. Reading Dai Young's comments on having to cut the size of his squad is interesting as I've felt that the expansion of cricket in this country was far too quick once the Sky cash came about.  That coupled with the ridiculous bidding system for international matches showed a very limited thought process by the ECB (which was so ably demonstrated by the Stanford affair).

    My hope is that first class cricket will branch off. If people want the shitty fireworks and loud music of T20, then develop teams for that. There will be players and teams who are prepared to do that at the expense of longer formats. But the development of a first-class scene away from that, possibly away from the counties, would be a good thing. All the talk has been of creating T20 franchises: I'd think about the reverse. Keep the county system for T20 games as local rivalries are real and can't be manufactured by two poxy franchise teams, and look to a franchise system for first-class cricket that could operate in the summer months whilst the T20 slog is going on. 

    I can understand Graham Onions moving and why Durham were reluctant to offer him a two year deal. With Kyle Jarvis going back to Zimbabwe, Lancashire wanted a bowler and he's a good choice. He will undoubtedly take wickets at Old Trafford if he stays fit. Jennings on the other hand is a lame move. He might be mindful of another chap who was talked about for England, namely Stephen Moore. A move from Worcestershire to Lancashire was meant to be the road to international honours: it only led to patchy form and a subsequent move to the great void known as Derbyshire. 








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  • Stuckfast said:
    Totally agree re Durham. When you think about what they've achieved in such a short space of time, and how productive they've been for England, it's shocking treatment.

    Maybe the likes of Lawrence and Browne aren't ready for the Ashes yet, but where is the evidence that Vince or Ballance have sorted out their problems?
    Nick Browne's game is so much in the Cook line of things that he will be groomed as a natural successor. Dan Lawrence has a lot of talent but plays in a very similar way to Tom Westley, a lot of bottom hand and a bit across the line. I imagine both will be with the Lions in Australia. 

    There's naff all evidence for Vince and Ballance having sorted out their problems. Absolutely none. But both can say that they've played international cricket, Ballance can point to tons, and so there's a certain amount of mental ability already demonstrated. 

    One name that hasn't been mentioned here: Ian Bell. As much as he was mocked by some areas of the crowd, the squad means his international days are done. It is quite remarkable that Bell there with Rhodes and Botham in terms of Ashes series wins (five). Bell didn't make the most of his talents but he certainly featured in some splendid moments with England. 

    @crunchman very few people are ever number 3's. Most drop down the order: a few like Justin Langer actually go up. With YJB, he's batted at the top of the pile for Yorkshire in one-day colours, he's doing it at ODI level now, so why not try him out? He can't do any worse than some of the other applicants. Perhaps we also need to assess what a number 3 batsman should be doing. Alex Davies is a keeper I have a great deal of time for. He's improved in both departments and his batting figures are very tidy indeed. Certainly he and Foakes are the two keepers next on the block so perhaps, with ensuring longevity for both Buttler and YJB, we should consider these guys to take the gloves and let the two experienced guys go with the bat alone. 

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  • GassageGassage Frets: 20534
    Honestly, a pissed up lad got decked outside a club in Bristol when clearly asking for it.

    Tell the pigs to make themselves useful and go prosecute G4S.


    Donald Trump has spoken movingly about 7-Eleven. It reminded him, he said, of the way Americans came together in 1941 after Pearl Necklace.

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  • Gassage said:
    Honestly, a pissed up lad got decked outside a club in Bristol when clearly asking for it.

    Tell the pigs to make themselves useful and go prosecute G4S.

    If the Mail report is true, it puts a new spin on things. 

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4927300/Cricket-star-Ben-Stokes-threw-15-punches-one-minute.html

    You then have to ask the question: what was Guile from Streetfighter doing at the same time?

    https://i.pinimg.com/474x/fb/c6/51/fbc651a1e3c1dae90b00c80963954bcf--guile-street-fighter-fighting-games.jpg

    http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/09/27/09/44C1FF8900000578-4924126-Alex_Hales_and_Ben_Stokes_photographed_together_during_the_night-m-6_1506500680886.jpg
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  • Gassage said:
    Honestly, a pissed up lad got decked outside a club in Bristol when clearly asking for it.

    Tell the pigs to make themselves useful and go prosecute G4S.


    Hmmm.  Punching a man to the ground when he can clearly be seen to be backing off and putting his hands up in a way that clearly says "I've had enough, I don't want to fight anymore"?

    ABH? Assault? Whichever it is, Stokes could be looking at prison - especially as he has form. 

    I obviously hope this doesn't happen, and with any luck the rumours of the mitigating circumstances turn out to be true and he'll end up actually being a bit of a hero....

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  • ....and now a video has emerged of him mocking Harvey Price....

    We do love to build em up and then knock em down again.....
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  • RobDavies said:
    ....and now a video has emerged of him mocking Harvey Price....

    We do love to build em up and then knock em down again.....
    You can bet your bottom dollar that video hasn't emerged all of a sudden, it's been kept for when the tabvloids decide that someone needs to be "taken down".

    Success is only permissible in this country as a prelude to failure.
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  • RobDavies said:
    ....and now a video has emerged of him mocking Harvey Price....

    We do love to build em up and then knock em down again.....
    That video is pretty f*cking funny though, his impersonation of Katie Price's accent in particular.
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  • RobDavies said:
    ....and now a video has emerged of him mocking Harvey Price....

    We do love to build em up and then knock em down again.....
    That video is pretty f*cking funny though, his impersonation of Katie Price's accent in particular.


    I bet Andrew Strauss is squirming in his seat

    I vote that Strauss lets Stokes off with light warning and get him on the plane to Aus and then Strauss can be the fall guy when the ECB seniors have to take action over "Stokesgate". Strauss won't help us smash the Aussies but Stokes can.

    "...I can hear you breathing down the hall"
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  • Still can't see how Stokes will be on the plane.  Push Root, Bairstow and Ali up the order?



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  • RobDavies said:
    ....and now a video has emerged of him mocking Harvey Price....

    We do love to build em up and then knock em down again.....
    That video is pretty f*cking funny though, his impersonation of Katie Price's accent in particular.


    I bet Andrew Strauss is squirming in his seat

    I vote that Strauss lets Stokes off with light warning and get him on the plane to Aus and then Strauss can be the fall guy when the ECB seniors have to take action over "Stokesgate". Strauss won't help us smash the Aussies but Stokes can.

    The decision won't be down to Strauss. 
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  • "Ben Foakes, the reserve wicketkeeper, could also come into consideration if Bairstow - one of England's most in-form players - is chosen as a specialist batsman."

    http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/20932476/stokes-withdrawn-ashes-pending-investigation

    If Stokes doesn't go to Australia, then perhaps it'll end up with a silver lining after all. 
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  • "Ben Foakes, the reserve wicketkeeper, could also come into consideration if Bairstow - one of England's most in-form players - is chosen as a specialist batsman."

    http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/20932476/stokes-withdrawn-ashes-pending-investigation

    If Stokes doesn't go to Australia, then perhaps it'll end up with a silver lining after all. 
    It'll still be Gary Ballance to replace Stokes, a player with absolutely no technical problems.... :/
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