Sweet home alabama

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  • HAL9000HAL9000 Frets: 9550
    edited May 2015
     
    This is about guitar players trying to find one scale that will fit all the chords in a progression. ie finding a short-cut, an easy option. 

    How true. I've sometimes thought that having learnt pentatonics early on, it's very easy to fall into solos that are just pointless widdling rather than being properly constructed. 

     I've just been playing King King's 'Long History of Love' where the main progression is A : C#m : G : Bm : (similar to Dylan's 'Lay Lady Lay' but slower and with a more bluesy feel).


    Now, although (to my ears anyway) this resolves to A, the G chord pretty much means you've got to continuously be thinking about what notes you're going to play next. Using the A major pentatonic works up to a point but unless you make adjustments when you reach the G chord it just sounds wrong. You really do need to get out of the habit of using the familiar shapes, and to really start thinking about where you're going next.
    I play guitar because I enjoy it rather than because I’m any good at it
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  • No need to say 'to my ears anyway'. It's definitely in A. :) Trust your ears - they usually know best.
    You're absolutely right - when soloing you need to be aware of the chord tones - not just expect every note in a scale to work.


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  • GuyBodenGuyBoden Frets: 733
    No need to say 'to my ears anyway'. It's definitely in A. :) Trust your ears - they usually know best.
    You're absolutely right - when soloing you need to be aware of the chord tones - not just expect every note in a scale to work.


    Yes, playing the chord's notes (Chord tones) on the strong beats and linking them by playing other notes on the weaker beats outlines the chord progression (Harmony). This is what most beginner Jazz players are taught to practice all day long over progressions, you can learn a lot by knowing some Jazz practice techniques.

    Good stuff.
    :)
    "Music makes the rules, music is not made from the rules."
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  • BigMonkaBigMonka Frets: 1763
    Yes, I've read the quote.
    Doesn't really prove anything.
     
    This is about guitar players trying to find one scale that will fit all the chords in a progression. ie finding a short-cut, an easy option. 
    Oh yeah - look, I found one. G major scale. That's because it's in G yeah?
    No.
    It's in D and we're actually hearing mixolydian.
    Saying its in D, then saying its in D mixolydian is bridging both sides of the argument ;-)

    It was me that suggested that it was wrong for people to think it was in a certain key just because it starts on that chord, it may often be the case but it's lazy music theory to expect all songs to do that - but it's clear by your posts that your reasoning for being in D is based upon listening to it rather than lazy theory though!
    Always be yourself! Unless you can be Batman, in which case always be Batman.
    My boss told me "dress for the job you want, not the job you have"... now I'm sat in a disciplinary meeting dressed as Batman.
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  • I'm not bridging both sides of the argument.
    I said it's in D and we're hearing mixolydian. As in, a D major scale with a flatted 7th degree.
    Still D major.
    It's in D. (it's not in "D mixolydian") I rarely use those sort of names for keys.
    Keys are either major or minor.
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  • gordijigordiji Frets: 782
    I'd lean towards key of D, but rather than see a key or scale as such it's just mixing major & minor pentatonics . Both the d major & minor thirds are played a lot . If you listen to the live version (one more from the road) the 2nd  solo opens by playing major pentatonics then plays a d minor blues lick over the d major chord at the start of the 2nd bar. The first player ends his beautiful solo playing a d major triad over the g (I) chord.
    Southern fried boogie, mixing major & minor pentatonics over a reverse I IV V. What works works.
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  • vizviz Frets: 10643
    edited March 2016
    I'm pretty sure you could phrase D C G G any way you like and it would still sound like D was tonic. :)

    :)

    How about Maggie May by Rod Stewart? Sex and Violence by The Exploited? One of my all-time favourite pieces of music.

    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • I'm still hearing D as tonic, but it is really ambiguous.
    I guess both camps are using different terms to explain the same thing.

    Take a vamp of Dm7 G7 C C:

    Is it D minor, or is it C major?
    Some might say it's Dm because the first chord is Dm and with a vamp the first chord is generally the key (especially a diatonic, non-modulating vamp).
    Others would propose that it's a ii V I in C major.

    Both are correct.


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  • vizviz Frets: 10643
    edited May 2015
    Deff a 251. I think you can make SHA and indeed sex and violence to be in D by judicious use of various techniques, such as the F chord, the kicker chord C in the last quaver and a half of the 4 bars, that sort of thing.
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • GuyBodenGuyBoden Frets: 733

    I'm not bridging both sides of the argument.
    I said it's in D and we're hearing mixolydian. As in, a D major scale with a flatted 7th degree.
    Still D major.
    It's in D. (it's not in "D mixolydian") I rarely use those sort of names for keys.
    Keys are either major or minor.
    Yes, you're using Major-Minor functional harmony, so the Key is defined as the Key Signature of a piece of music, usually written at the beginning of the sheet in sharps and flats, so yes either a Major or a Minor key.

    But, with non-functional harmony, including contemporary modal music theory, the Tonic centre can be D Mixolydian and Key Signature can be G.

    Even more complex can be Polymodality, where multiple modes are used simultaneously, for example, perhaps a Mixolydian melody with a Ionian Harmony.

    No one really cares, as long as it sounds good, which is subjective in itself.

    Modal interchange is good too, using different modes, but the having the same Tonic.

    Good fun, interesting stuff.
    Guy
    "Music makes the rules, music is not made from the rules."
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  • Agree with the 251.
    The other stuff though not so much. Where's F coming from?

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  • vizviz Frets: 10643
    Just before the alabama first solo
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • Oh yea.
    I knew it was there but what's the relevance?
    It happens like once, twice, maybe three times in the whole song.
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  • vizviz Frets: 10643
    edited March 2016
    It helps make the song not in G because it accelerates the movement away from it towards the beginning of the next bar, which is .... a D :) - and its legacy remains longer than the few times it happens, as do other little turnaround devices deployed in the 4th bar in other parts of the (studio version) song.
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • So it IS in D then?
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  • koneguitaristkoneguitarist Frets: 4125
    So it IS in D then?

    No in G !
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  • vizviz Frets: 10643
    Lol - Right, what I'm saying is that you can make it in D by using those techniques, or you can make it in G by just playing it straight, as Lynyrd do in their live versions, where like the last 5"4 minutes of it are just noodling on straight DCGG, with no kicker chords, making it really G-ish.
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • vizviz Frets: 10643
    Lol kone
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • I've never played with anybody who thinks it's in G.
    It's so blatantly D when I listen to it I feel like I'm going mad! :)

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  • vizviz Frets: 10643
    I also felt mad when everyone else said it's in G but, honestly, those live versions really are!
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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