Paxman vs Brand

VimFuego

I'm not talking about MP's. As for who benefits from the current system, I'd say you need look no further than the square mile.

PolarityMan

VimFuego said:

I'm not talking about MP's. As for who benefits from the current system, I'd say you need look no further than the square mile.

They don't set the rules though. And besides how exactly does the system benefit them? Are you talking about the political system or capitalism in general?

Fretwired

PolarityMan said:

VimFuego said:

I'm not talking about MP's. As for who benefits from the current system, I'd say you need look no further than the square mile.

They don't set the rules though. And besides how exactly does the system benefit them? Are you talking about the political system or capitalism in general?

You've obviously never heard of Tony Blair ... or £40 million Tony Blair .. start a few wars and get a nice line in income as a Middle East peace envoy .. reward from Haliburton and co. And John Major ended up as a director of a few City firms and now lives in the US as a tax exile worth millions. And Brown hasn't done too badly .... Brand is spot on when it comes to the political classes. Just look at Harriet Harman ...

VimFuego

of course they set the rules, and I'm saying the political system is organised in such a way so as to benefit their form of crony capitalism. That is why I posted that link to the four horsemen film, it's has contributions from some very highly recognised economists and commentators. I am a free marketeer, the system we have now is more a form of socialism than it is free market capitalism. Honestly, watch that film, it answers better than I could.

Really, this is all something I have said before. Believe it or not (and maybe in contravention of the available evidence) I dislike saying the same thing over and over.

Fretwired

VimFuego said:

of course they set the rules, and I'm saying the political system is organised in such a way so as to benefit their form of crony capitalism. That is why I posted that link to the four horsemen film, it's has contributions from some very highly recognised economists and commentators. I am a free marketeer, the system we have now is more a form of socialism than it is free market capitalism. Honestly, watch that film, it answers better than I could.

Really, this is all something I have said before. Believe it or not (and maybe in contravention of the available evidence) I dislike saying the same thing over and over.

I watched it .... it made some good points although I heard a few of them before. Politics has become a popularity contest in which people will say virtually anything to get into power. I've always thought that the best way to get more people to vote is to simply run the next election as a reality TV show with people voting for their favourite politician, based on a serious of tasks, every week .. couldn't be any worse than what we have now.

VimFuego

I think (and this is just my early morning thoughts) is that the only thing most politicians are good at nowadays is getting elected. That's fine when you're a back bencher or in opposition, but not much cop when you get into government. So in order to run an actual country, they need experts. In the good old days, that used to be the civil service. Now, for various reasons, it is run by industry "experts". So the economy (for example) is run by people who tend to work for banks and other financial organisations. And they run it in a manner which best suits the banks.

I dunno what the answer is, as you say it's a pretty bad system we currently have. 

Cirrus

SO... who's actually read his article in New Statesman then?

IanSavage

Drew_fx said:

Jalapeno;65576" said:

georgenadaintl said:

Essex home counties, what?





Indeed. Grays-Thurrock where Russell Brand comes from is not a leafy Home counties suburb .........

I don't think you know what the term 'Home Counties' actually means. It's a geographical term to do with the proximity to London, nothing more than that. The whole of Essex is in the Home Counties.

Compare any of the places you guys have mentioned to Nuneaton, Hull, Coventry, Birmingham, or Grimsby, and I think you'll see that any claim to the working class on part of Brand is complete piffle.

Don't you knock Birmingham

Evilmags

VimFuego said:

Evilmags said:

He's a bit naive tbh. Name one revolution that did not result in more misery than it aimed to stamp out?

American revolution? French revolution? and that's without any effort.

The French revolution led directly to the terror, in which thousands were publically executed, followed by the tyranical Times of Napoleon, unleashing decades of war on Europe. What part of that made life better? 

VimFuego

Evilmags said:

VimFuego said:

Evilmags said:

He's a bit naive tbh. Name one revolution that did not result in more misery than it aimed to stamp out?

American revolution? French revolution? and that's without any effort.

The French revolution led directly to the terror, in which thousands were publically executed, followed by the tyranical Times of Napoleon, unleashing decades of war on Europe. What part of that made life better? 

well, I'd say things are much better in France now than they were before the revolution. However, don't let that stop your amusingly childish attempts at point scoring. I do enjoy it when you make yourself look a cunt.

 

And for the historically retarded (that's you mags), things were really shitty before the revolution, but only for the poor.

Evilmags

Free markets prevent fraud. Take the most outrageous of bank rescues to date, the IPO of Spain's Bankia. Prior to selling worthless shares the government banned short selling. The shares were nearly all sold to retail customers, as no profesional investor would touch them. Had shorting been allowed, then the Hedge funds would have killed the issue by short interest. Government market intervention allowed the fraud to happen. In a free market there is plenty of opportuinty for a perspecacious investor. But they dissapear once discovered. State distortion of a market creates malinvestment and asset price bubbles. The reason central banks exist and distort debt markets is so government can finace things it cant affoard through inflation. Given technological advances and almost constant improvements in manufacturing efficiency things should be getting cheaper, not more expensive. In reality they are, just our moneynis getting debased. A move to a system of free banking, in which banks issue currency rather than a central bank would place a lot of constraints on the ability to create housing bubbles.

VimFuego

erm, banks do already issue 97% of money in circulation. I could show you a link to a film I think you'd find educational, but it contains some long words and I don't suppose you have an adult you can ask about them. It is precisely because banks have created money for housing that we have a housing bubble. Really mags, I've explained all this to you already. Do keep up, or you'll get left behind.

carlos

Things were really, really bad for the poor pre-revolution. The terror led to execution of thousands, but similarly pre-revolution thousands died of hunger. More importantly it launched the concept of human rights and things we take for granted these days like free movement of citizens within their own country, pensions for old age and disabled, etc.

Saying the French Revolution unleashed decades of war on Europe is a bit much, no? 18th century Europe wasn't exactly a peaceful place whether it was a birthright noble or a self-imposed noble (emperor napoleon) in charge.

bertie

VimFuego said:

well, I'd say things are much better in France now than they were before the revolution. 

they're a lot better here too, 

georgenadaintl said:

 More importantly it launched the concept of human rights and things we take for granted these days like free movement of citizens within their own country, pensions for old age and disabled, etc.

did it really ?  

Evilmags

So a war across the whole of Europe, with armies marching across several nation states, led to a better France? The French Republic was refounded three times after the revolution. If you look at post revolution populations they almost inevitably fall dramatically. Population shrinkage and human misery go hand in hand. Revolutions lead to death, misery, war, murder and human suffering. Russia had the purges, China the cultural revolution and great leap forward, Cuba has basically become a giant brothel, North Korea is also the product of revolution. The history of revolutions is one of removing one bunch of cvnts and replacing them with another. 

VimFuego

mags, I know you have issues but what the fuck does north korea have to do with the French revolution. For fucks sake, at least try and maintain a sense of reality. I mean seriously, did you get dropped on your head a lot or something?

carlos

octatonic said:

Brand is wrong though- there will be no revolution.

Things would have to become far worse for the 'common' man for a revolution to happen. Far, far worse.

There's no historical precedent for revolution in an advanced capitalist society. Closest would be something like May 68 in France. But that's a different country with different mentalities. I think the UK is very reactionary in general with its strong nationalism, love of authority figures (monarchy), corporate controlled media, ingrained hatred (is this a protestant/roundhead thing?) of skivers, and isolationism regarding other Euro countries (the revolution in Egypt spread in North Africa, but even if a revolution happened next door in France I don't think the UK would be influenced).

bertie

I agree with mags, I mean look at the industrial revolution lead to poverty of farming communities as machinery took over the jobs of farm workers.

Im not even going to mention the sexual revolution

VimFuego

yup, what George said, for revolutions to occur, people need to feel pain. We don't feel anywhere near enough pain in the west. Whether we will in the future I don't know, lots of changes ahead of us.

carlos

Evilmags said:

The history of revolutions is one of removing one bunch of cvnts and replacing them with another. 

You realise that all present societies, even the ones you seem to be fond of, were founded on a revolution of some sort? Reform only takes it so far and is the tool of the cvnts in power to stay in power.