Line 6 Helix

johnonguitar

Wtf is a multitap delay and why does it sound so awesome?

also what the deal with the stereo and mono versions of particular fx? Like obviously I can hear the difference in say the vintage digital delay between stereo and mono but why is it that sometimes I can only choose a stereo reverb even if I only have an amp and cab in the chain?

and being the last effect block does this reverb get summed to mono when I'm not playing in stereo?

i know this has been covered but it's still confusing me why sometimes only stereo versions are available when it's a bone dry patch

Cabicular

Until you put a mono amp/cab/or mono fx in it will be a stereo path and a stereo path can only have a stereo effect.   It all gets summed to mono if you are only using one output so it's not an issue but does that make sense?

Cabicular

It would be better represented if you imagine the line in the path to be two lines like a railway track. When you put an amp or a distortion pedal in it collapses it in to one line. When you put a mono cab in it maintains that line. Put a dual cab in and each speaker opens it back up to stereo. 

Cabicular

A multi tap delay (as I'm sure you know) is a multiple delays within a delay. So instead of having one at 400ms and one at 850 ms (Vai style) you have a single delay with multiple taps

Cabicular

I believe it was based on multi head tap echoes

johnonguitar

Raaaaaaaight! So it's default state is a stereo path. That makes way more sense. I just assumed it's default state would have been mono, like until you added a stereo effect.


Yeah I was really just wondering if there multitap delays were based on anything in particular. There's a dual delay in there too I'm sure? I really like the default repeats on the multitap 4 doodaa. Makes me want to get all P&W!


So it sums to mono if only using one output? That's cool. As I use a small patch bay there is always one output plugged into but if I'm using the headphone out at the same time that still stays in stereo. Which is cool. That could have been a small PITA if it hadnt

johnonguitar

Cabicular said:

A multi tap delay (as I'm sure you know) is a multiple delays within a delay. So instead of having one at 400ms and one at 850 ms (Vai style) you have a single delay with multiple taps

Vai ran the short delay into the long delay didn't he?

just for talking sake how does that work in the multitap delay? Does that run the first delay into the second and so forth? As opposed to the dual delay running them in parallel?

Sporky

Usually in a multitap there is one delay line, and that is tapped at various positions.

With a short delay into a long delay you get three repeats - one at the short delay, one at the long delay, and one at the long delay into the short delay.

With a multitap you get as many repeats as you have taps; they don't feed into each other. Think of it like a tape loop with one write head and multiple read heads.

johnonguitar

Sporky said:

Usually in a multitap there is one delay line, and that is tapped at various positions.

With a short delay into a long delay you get three repeats - one at the short delay, one at the long delay, and one at the long delay into the short delay.

With a multitap you get as many repeats as you have taps; they don't feed into each other. Think of it like a tape loop with one write head and multiple read heads.

Gotcha! I've never been a big delay guy so never quite knew what the score was with this stuff!

Sporky

Multitap is nice because you can set up some interesting rhythms with it.

You can also leave a gap before a series of more tightly spaced repeats, so that your initial notes get a bit more "room" but the sound still fills out nicely. A bit like pre-delay on a reverb. Which can also make it sound more like a natural space. Lots of possibilities.

John_A

On the subject of delays (and reverb) Just been listening to a load of AX8 Vs Helix demos and come to the conclusion that after the initial 'wow that AX8 sounds great', it's more that the better (more studio like?) delays and reverbs on the AX8 put a layer of processed fairy dust on top of everything, there's nothing really to suggest the basic models are any better or worse that the Helix and in fact I think the Helix sounds more like a real amp and less like a showcase for a fancy reverb.  I've heard a few bands playing AXFX live and it's always sounded over processed, I don't get that with my Helix

johnonguitar

John_A said:

On the subject of delays (and reverb) Just been listening to a load of AX8 Vs Helix demos and come to the conclusion that after the initial 'wow that AX8 sounds great', it's more that the better (more studio like?) delays and reverbs on the AX8 put a layer of processed fairy dust on top of everything, there's nothing really to suggest the basic models are any better or worse that the Helix and in fact I think the Helix sounds more like a real amp and less like a showcase for a fancy reverb.  I've heard a few bands playing AXFX live and it's always sounded over processed, I don't get that with my Helix

The V.2 update modelling (whatever the hell they done to it) is second to none. People may prefer others but it's definitely on a par now.

i I was blown away by the S-Gear 15 day trial just before I bought my Helix. The Helix wasn't quite there modelling wise. Whatever's changed has put it on a par and after buying S-Gear last week I don't think I really have a preference between them now.

in fact, I don't even adjust the Plexi BRT model anymore. Not even the eq. I used to be fiddling with the sag and bias and all sorts just to get rid of the squirrels and could never really settle.

now it just works (into an Own Hammer IR) straight away. Majik!

John_A

L6 are adamant they've done nothing to the modelling on rev 2.0, I put Rev 2.0 on mine as soon as I got it so can't really comment.  Sounds great though

Teetonetal

John_A said:

L6 are adamant they've done nothing to the modelling on rev 2.0, I put Rev 2.0 on mine as soon as I got it so can't really comment.  Sounds great though

I did an AB test and on the plexi model at least there was a small difference. But I reckon it's in settings rather than actual modelling...

I still can't get the Fender models to sound nice. Spending all my time in the Essex 15 and the Line 6 hotrod.

johnonguitar

There's a difference. The squirelly bits are way less prominent. Just when you think they should take over and destroy your listening pleasure all of a sudden they're shelved and die off. 

L6 said there may have been "changes in the background", I refuse to believe I'm imagining it

Cabicular

I've just picked up one of these for the home studio
8 amps into 4 cabs ... real life helix
http://www.kahayan.es/#!selector-8x4/c24kn

bloodandtears

johnonguitar said:

There's a difference. The squirelly bits are way less prominent. Just when you think they should take over and destroy your listening pleasure all of a sudden they're shelved and die off. 

L6 said there may have been "changes in the background", I refuse to believe I'm imagining it

defined this "squirrly" sound please

johnonguitar

Cabicular said:

I've just picked up one of these for the home studio
8 amps into 4 cabs ... real life helix
http://www.kahayan.es/#!selector-8x4/c24kn

Ooooft that's some serious Tim Pierce shit!

johnonguitar

bloodandtears said:

johnonguitar said:

There's a difference. The squirelly bits are way less prominent. Just when you think they should take over and destroy your listening pleasure all of a sudden they're shelved and die off. 

L6 said there may have been "changes in the background", I refuse to believe I'm imagining it

defined this "squirrly" sound please

It was easiest to hear as a not decayed. Especially in medium gain setting. Some people called it cross over distortion but it was just a kind of unnatural fizz that accompanied the note. And if it was in the decay it was sure to mean it was there the whole time you were playing although buried.

A few suffered the problem less than other namely the Soldano model.

after v2 I find it difficult to hear in most of the amps. I'll not vouch for those amps that I wasn't familiar with before.

I had spent a lot of time messing around with the Plexi BRT. I don't care what anyone says, it's changed somehow. For the better.

the new amps that were added seem to be completely devoid of this "problem"

Cabicular

johnonguitar said:

Cabicular said:

I've just picked up one of these for the home studio
8 amps into 4 cabs ... real life helix
http://www.kahayan.es/#!selector-8x4/c24kn

Ooooft that's some serious Tim Pierce shit!

I've got all these nice amps so would a shame not to use them. Much as I really rate the Helix for live use.. recording I would probably always get the twin out (so to speak)