Line 6 Helix

fretmeister

That's a good point.

Is there a phase reversal option anywhere in the Helix?

guitarfishbay

fretmeister said:

That's a good point.

Is there a phase reversal option anywhere in the Helix?

It's not necessarily as simple as just flipping phase - the start points will have an impact too (so with a real mic this means the distance from the speaker to the mic).  Most IR packs are aligned to a universal start point, which is why you can blend them without getting phase issues.

I should add I haven't tested this type of setup, but in theory there is potential for issues.

Cabicular

vasselmeyer said:

Drew_TNBD said:

That looks like a pretty awesome amp. There is almost certainly a way to do the whole stereo thing with a mono amp and the Helix, using amp and cab modelling and an extra output going to the PA.

Actually,  I bet you could do wet/dry/wet with that setup and a PA. Wet left into the Orange and miced into the PA, dry centre direct through the PA, wet right into the Orange and again miced through the PA. That would sound MASSIVE.

I'm not sure why you would do that rather than just put 3 outputs into the PA?
seems a lot of hassle for not much result

Vaiai

Cabicular said:

Vaiai said:

Cabicular said:

Vaiai said:

Ok, back to the Helix
I tried recording in Reaper last week - no problem - sound went in fine - but when I tried to playback I couldn't unless I unplugged the Helix and changed the output on my PC back to speakers - I am using the Helix specific driver. I was not using headphones tho - does it all work thru the phones? Just connected with USB btw - not using an interface.

Should be fine
you should be able to use USB 1\2 to return the signal unless you have changed your output block to exclude it

Should I be able to hear it on my PC or is it just in the headphones? When playing there was huge latency but in the manual it says to use headphones to ear it "live" - I presume I'd hear my backing track in there too?

When you say 'on your pc' I'm not clear what you mean
you should have a pair of monitor speakers plugged into the back of your Helix as it is now working as your audio interface. The most expensive soundblaster in history
you can also monitor via the headphones for zero latency monitoring (as in most audio interfaces)
Am I misunderstanding you?

That's where I went wrong - I only have the USB in - no monitor speakers. I used headphones the other night and it was fine - loaded a backing track and played along with no issue.

Soundblaster! There's a blast from the past..

Config.sys: 
DEVICE=C:\SOUND\DRV\CTSB2.SYS /UNIT=0 /BLASTER=A:220 I:5 D:1 
DEVICE=C:\SOUND\DRV\CTMMSYS.SYS 
FILES=40 

Autoexec.bat: 
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 T3 

Haha!

vasselmeyer

Cabicular said:

vasselmeyer said:

Drew_TNBD said:

That looks like a pretty awesome amp. There is almost certainly a way to do the whole stereo thing with a mono amp and the Helix, using amp and cab modelling and an extra output going to the PA.

Actually,  I bet you could do wet/dry/wet with that setup and a PA. Wet left into the Orange and miced into the PA, dry centre direct through the PA, wet right into the Orange and again miced through the PA. That would sound MASSIVE.

I'm not sure why you would do that rather than just put 3 outputs into the PA?
seems a lot of hassle for not much result

Of course you could, but someone mentioned a stereo amp and I just expanded on the idea of adding a direct dry signal into the middle through the PA. It would be much easier to do it with three outputs direct from the Helix.

Cabicular

vasselmeyer said:

Cabicular said:

vasselmeyer said:

Drew_TNBD said:

That looks like a pretty awesome amp. There is almost certainly a way to do the whole stereo thing with a mono amp and the Helix, using amp and cab modelling and an extra output going to the PA.

Actually,  I bet you could do wet/dry/wet with that setup and a PA. Wet left into the Orange and miced into the PA, dry centre direct through the PA, wet right into the Orange and again miced through the PA. That would sound MASSIVE.

I'm not sure why you would do that rather than just put 3 outputs into the PA?
seems a lot of hassle for not much result

Of course you could, but someone mentioned a stereo amp and I just expanded on the idea of adding a direct dry signal into the middle through the PA. It would be much easier to do it with three outputs direct from the Helix.

Ah I was wondering if I was missing something.
I used to use my Gibson Goldtone as a stereo Poweramp for onstage monitoring but 
a. It's the heaviest amp in the world
b. it kind of blew up a little

guitarfishbay

vasselmeyer said:

Cabicular said:

vasselmeyer said:

Drew_TNBD said:

That looks like a pretty awesome amp. There is almost certainly a way to do the whole stereo thing with a mono amp and the Helix, using amp and cab modelling and an extra output going to the PA.

Actually,  I bet you could do wet/dry/wet with that setup and a PA. Wet left into the Orange and miced into the PA, dry centre direct through the PA, wet right into the Orange and again miced through the PA. That would sound MASSIVE.

I'm not sure why you would do that rather than just put 3 outputs into the PA?
seems a lot of hassle for not much result

Of course you could, but someone mentioned a stereo amp and I just expanded on the idea of adding a direct dry signal into the middle through the PA. It would be much easier to do it with three outputs direct from the Helix.

Well the idea is definitely cool but the issue will be phase alignment.

It would be significantly easier to just use the Helix because all the outputs would be in phase.

It usually takes a bit of time to place multiple mics on a guitar cab for optimum phase relationship.  The classic trick is to flip the phase of the secondary mic, position it to where it makes the worst sounding phase relationship with the primary mic (just make it sound as thin and quiet as you can) then flip the phase back around - and it should be pretty good.  

You can of course align the signals afterwards in a DAW if you were recording but that isn't an option for live... so either you physically get them in phase through how you place the mic, or you use some kind of compensation such as delaying the earlier signal... of course coupled with phase flips as necessary.

That's the theory... I've never tried to blend an IR with a real mic'd signal in real time but my guess is it won't sound great (in phase) without additional steps.

Cabicular

I did a gig at the weekend at a Hospice Benefit called Bellas Bawl at the weekend.
Multiband line up so backline was supplied.
I could have gone straight into the PA and then tried to get the sound guy to sort us all out monitor mixes but decided against it as he was under a bit of pressure.
There were 2 4x12s there he had already miced up so I took a wee Harley benton stereo poweramp and ran it into both cabs
Sounded amazing

https://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_gpa_400.htm
Worth having one fro the money

Drew_TNBD

I don't think the phase alignment thing would be too much of a problem, but I confess I haven't tried it. I think the Ownhammer MPT files might come into their own here.

gibsongretschfan

Cabicular said:

I did a gig at the weekend at a Hospice Benefit called Bellas Bawl at the weekend.
Multiband line up so backline was supplied.
I could have gone straight into the PA and then tried to get the sound guy to sort us all out monitor mixes but decided against it as he was under a bit of pressure.
There were 2 4x12s there he had already miced up so I took a wee Harley benton stereo poweramp and ran it into both cabs
Sounded amazing

https://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_gpa_400.htm
Worth having one fro the money

Why didn't you take the Fryette?

Cabicular

gibsongretschfan said:

Cabicular said:

I did a gig at the weekend at a Hospice Benefit called Bellas Bawl at the weekend.
Multiband line up so backline was supplied.
I could have gone straight into the PA and then tried to get the sound guy to sort us all out monitor mixes but decided against it as he was under a bit of pressure.
There were 2 4x12s there he had already miced up so I took a wee Harley benton stereo poweramp and ran it into both cabs
Sounded amazing

https://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_gpa_400.htm
Worth having one fro the money

Why didn't you take the Fryette?

Weight
I wanted to be able to get all my stuff there and back in one trip.
So I had
Mono Double guitar bag
Helix in bag
Poweramp in 2U softbag
And another bag with guitar stands and spare cables

The Freyettes are in a rolling rack case.
Had it been a full gig I would have made the extra effort but we had been playing the night before and I was done after loading the PA back in at 3am!

menamestom

Quick question.  Can you record into garageband via a camera connection kit?  i.e. will an ipad recognise the Helix as a USB audio input device?

Cabicular

menamestom said:

Quick question.  Can you record into garageband via a camera connection kit?  i.e. will an ipad recognise the Helix as a USB audio input device?

@TimmyO is your man for that

guitarfishbay

Drew_TNBD said:

I don't think the phase alignment thing would be too much of a problem, but I confess I haven't tried it. I think the Ownhammer MPT files might come into their own here.

The IRs will be in phase with each other, it's the mic'd signal that is likely to cause you a problem. OH raw are all time aligned to other OH raw already. OH MPT are for blending with other MPT packs. You could use either if they're both the same. The mic will be the variable in this scenario (and would continue to be a variable every time you set it up, to an extent, since it's hard to completely replicate where you put it).

You've got the gear to test it if you want. Send a ping out of your DAW into the Helix which is 4CM with your amp, send 2xIR'd signals back to the DAW and put a real mic on the cab. You'll be able to see if there's a difference.

sw67

Cabicular said:

I did a gig at the weekend at a Hospice Benefit called Bellas Bawl at the weekend.
Multiband line up so backline was supplied.
I could have gone straight into the PA and then tried to get the sound guy to sort us all out monitor mixes but decided against it as he was under a bit of pressure.
There were 2 4x12s there he had already miced up so I took a wee Harley benton stereo poweramp and ran it into both cabs
Sounded amazing

https://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_gpa_400.htm
Worth having one fro the money

That was a good gig - i play in the band that was on before you. Was going to ask you about the helix but i know how much of a rush it was setting up. i Should have a helix this year so will have a chat next time i see your band if that's ok

Drew_TNBD

guitarfishbay said:

Drew_TNBD said:

I don't think the phase alignment thing would be too much of a problem, but I confess I haven't tried it. I think the Ownhammer MPT files might come into their own here.

The IRs will be in phase with each other, it's the mic'd signal that is likely to cause you a problem. OH raw are all time aligned to other OH raw already. OH MPT are for blending with other MPT packs. You could use either if they're both the same. The mic will be the variable in this scenario (and would continue to be a variable every time you set it up, to an extent, since it's hard to completely replicate where you put it).

You've got the gear to test it if you want. Send a ping out of your DAW into the Helix which is 4CM with your amp, send 2xIR'd signals back to the DAW and put a real mic on the cab. You'll be able to see if there's a difference.

I may give that a go and report back.

guitarfishbay

Drew_TNBD said:

guitarfishbay said:

Drew_TNBD said:

I don't think the phase alignment thing would be too much of a problem, but I confess I haven't tried it. I think the Ownhammer MPT files might come into their own here.

The IRs will be in phase with each other, it's the mic'd signal that is likely to cause you a problem. OH raw are all time aligned to other OH raw already. OH MPT are for blending with other MPT packs. You could use either if they're both the same. The mic will be the variable in this scenario (and would continue to be a variable every time you set it up, to an extent, since it's hard to completely replicate where you put it).

You've got the gear to test it if you want. Send a ping out of your DAW into the Helix which is 4CM with your amp, send 2xIR'd signals back to the DAW and put a real mic on the cab. You'll be able to see if there's a difference.

I may give that a go and report back.

Cool, if you get round to it the IR'd signals would want an amp block before them too in order to be representative of using Helix models alongside a real amp+cab+mic setup.  I actually don't know if that would make any difference... but it'd be worth doing anyway

TimmyO

Cabicular said:

menamestom said:

Quick question.  Can you record into garageband via a camera connection kit?  i.e. will an ipad recognise the Helix as a USB audio input device?

@TimmyO is your man for that

Yes you can, I've just grabbed some screenshots of doing it in both GarageBand and Cubasis on iPad (also to test some pic annotation apps :-) ) but there are a couples of gotchas to watch out for too (see after pics)

TimmyO

Oh ffs - image comments on iPad torment again...

TimmyO

hang on