The difference between a Key and a Mode

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  • frankusfrankus Frets: 4719
    edited June 2015
    GuyBoden said:
    frankus said:

    The problem is having time to dedicate to learning sounds, intervals, note functions, where it all overlaps to the extent where I can extemporise it .. at the same time as being a gainfully employed, husband, father, band-member, martial-artist and cross-fit monster and diy pedal tinkerer.


    Yes I agree, finding the time is the big problem.....  :)

    Finding the time isn't the problem; I've found all the available time I can physically manage. I can pretty much tell you what I'll be doing minute by minute until my head hits the pillow tonight at 10:30 and I'll be asleep a minute later. I'm happy with my choices, most likely because I made them several days earlier and am simply tweaking them a little closer to the time - when stuff arises (or where I've bitten off more than I can chew) or when I set aside time I get to be spontaneous.

    What I see as the problem is the world is flooded free advice: scale tutorials, kata tutorials, how to do the perfect push-up - they're not unique and often serve to distract from really good sources. Because of this new definition of success there's a real lack of innovation and revelation in the mainstream. People are happier to improve their recitation and trivia and overall the art suffers for that. 

    I have a simple policy: get taught by people who charge and are professional practicioners at an international level. The reason for that is simple - learning is a means to an end not a destination.

    A sig-nat-eur? What am I meant to use this for ffs?! Is this thing recording?
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  • thomasross20thomasross20 Frets: 4423
    Totally agree, frankus. 

    Information OVERLOAD!! Too many books, DVDs etc. My goals are simple: get the technique down. Have fretboard independence. Write songs. 

    It's good to rehash things you know and from different sources but it's something else to learn something new that takes serious effort. That's partly why I signed up to jamplay - I get taught and learn things from pro guitarists (even if they're not analysing the technical aspects of my playing for now). 

    There's just SO much information out there, you can drown. 
    People say it's the best time to be a guitarist but I think maybe not..!
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  • frankusfrankus Frets: 4719

    My eldest learned Maths at School and the idea behind the numeracy hour was to find one way that each kid could understand how to perform mathematical functions, what it turned into was my son getting stressed because he was only completely proficient in one of the five methods of long division, the others took him too long. Stupid f***ing teachers.

    There are 12 notes - it can be as hard or as simple as you want it to be, and the music mags and a certain type of teacher want it to be harder than you think you can cope with - then you need their help.

    To some teachers if you aren't indigent, you're not a good student.

     

     

     

    A sig-nat-eur? What am I meant to use this for ffs?! Is this thing recording?
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  • JalapenoJalapeno Frets: 6378
    If D Dorian is a scale, what's the second Mode of it called ?  D Dorian Dorian ?
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  • thomasross20thomasross20 Frets: 4423
    If D dorian is a scale, second note up I see as E phrygian. 

    You can totally base a song on modes. 

    If D dorian... it doesn't mean you have to play the colourful notes that make the diatonic chords highlight their "colours". I've done this on a few songs - one is based largely on lydian. I tend to highlight the #4 of the root and the other chords tend to remain standard maj/min. 

    Or maybe I'm talking b0ll0cks ;D

    frankus, must admit I'm learning many things but might not use some. I look at some of the grades' syllabus and I'd never really play a m7b5 arp in several positions. Probably something I should know though. I was playing in the band last night and instead of focusing on the sounds, the songs and the shapes I was try to decipher notes and whatnot mid-song and found I was tripping myself up. LIke Satch says, best learn it then forget it. 
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  • frankusfrankus Frets: 4719

    yep thinking gets in the way of muscle memory, several studies show that :)

    I don't mind learning stuff for an exam, the qualification will hopefully have some use.

    A sig-nat-eur? What am I meant to use this for ffs?! Is this thing recording?
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  • JalapenoJalapeno Frets: 6378
    edited June 2015
    I'd have thought E Phrygian would be the 3rd mode of the C Major scale ;)
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  • GuyBodenGuyBoden Frets: 733

    frankus said:

    yep thinking gets in the way of muscle memory, several studies show that :)

    I don't mind learning stuff for an exam, the qualification will hopefully have some use.

    I like learning stuff, it's just the way I am, but we're all different.

    I didn't know that muscles had memory, I thought that the brain had the memory cells.  ;)
    "Music makes the rules, music is not made from the rules."
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  • thomasross20thomasross20 Frets: 4423
    Hahaha - so @jalapeno - seriously... how do you approach playing over multiple chords in a piece? It must be strictly around chord shapes with the odd note thrown in, right? Jazz... so not for me lol...
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  • JalapenoJalapeno Frets: 6378
    edited June 2015
    ii V - play a ii or V (or both) arpeggio sounds more interesting the "wrong" way around -  up & down arpeggios or scales sounds a bit naff, almost robotic, try just the 3rd and 7th notes of the chord arpeggios.

    I look for I Vi ii V, ii V, ii V I patterns and use the Major scale of the I (modes if you like) - for interest.

    Messy stuff with 4 chords a bar is usually something chromatic, so I follow the chromatic roots/3rds, or completely ignore it and move on the the resolution - no time to think about it
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  • JalapenoJalapeno Frets: 6378
    edited June 2015
    GuyBoden said:

    I didn't know that muscles had memory, I thought that the brain had the memory cells.  ;)
    Don't know if you're trying to be deliberately snarky, hope not ? :)

    Lots of tutors talk about muscle memory, also ear training, you find yourself playing things without thinking them.   That's the aim, playing what your inner-voice hears.

    IMHO etc
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  • thomasross20thomasross20 Frets: 4423
    edited June 2015
    Jal, I would also try to recognise the progression and target a parent scale that encompasses the lot. 
    Would love to be able to play something different over each chord but that's serious territory. 
    In reality I might struggle to recognise the II-V-I in the heat of the moment. I prefer knowing what will be played in advance :) And when solo sections and the like are largely based on one mode or whatever. In fact in my tunes I do change tonality/mode mid solo but it's pre-arranged... 
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  • GuyBodenGuyBoden Frets: 733
    Jalapeno said:
    GuyBoden said:

    I didn't know that muscles had memory, I thought that the brain had the memory cells.  ;)
    Don't know if you're trying to be deliberately snarky, hope not ? :)

    Lots of tutors talk about muscle memory, also ear training, you find yourself playing things without thinking them.   That's the aim, playing what your inner-voice hears.

    IMHO etc
    Yeah, I know muscles don't have memory cells, but I understand the concept of "Muscle Memory" in training routines, I was joking. Hence the icon ;)
    "Music makes the rules, music is not made from the rules."
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  • vizviz Frets: 10647
    Jalapeno;674739" said:
    I'd have thought E Phrygian would be the 3rd mode of the C Major scale ;)
    It's both! Dorian is the 2nd mode of ionian, and ionian is the 6th mode of dorian. Phrygian is the 1st mode of ionian and the 2nd mode of dorian.

    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • JalapenoJalapeno Frets: 6378
    I'm talking about Jazz Standards - those patterns (and Dom7 cycles) happen all the time.

    Other music would not necessarily fit that approach (sounds crap when I throw it into the cover band's tunes ;) )
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  • thomasross20thomasross20 Frets: 4423
    Yep I know :) 
    Standard patterns or not - they still scare me!! 
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  • GuyBodenGuyBoden Frets: 733
    edited June 2015
    viz said:
    Jalapeno;674739" said:
    I'd have thought E Phrygian would be the 3rd mode of the C Major scale ;)
    It's both! Dorian is the 2nd mode of ionian, and ionian is the 7th mode of dorian. Phrygian is the 3rd mode of ionian and the 2nd mode of dorian.


    "Music makes the rules, music is not made from the rules."
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  • vizviz Frets: 10647
    Omg thanks!
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • JalapenoJalapeno Frets: 6378
    Yep I know :) 
    Standard patterns or not - they still scare me!! 
    It's pretty simple when you hear them a lot, you need to practice this stuff in context rather than writing about them on Internet forums ;)
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  • vizviz Frets: 10647
    Can't even blame my thumbs because I said st and nd. Blame my maths.
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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