EL84s in high gain/multi-function amps

Pyroman

  Speaking of 4x El-84 amps, what about the Peavey Classic series?  Are they cathode biased or what?  The lead channel seems to have stupid amounts of gain- I haven't tested out HOW much, because the C30 I tried is REALLY loud.  I didn't want to knock stuff off the walls or get booted out of the shop.  ( that, and I liked the clean channel too much to really fool around with the lead one!) Interestingly enough, the clean channel is actually louder than the lead channel.  One opinion is that they did that on purpose, so you could get more crunch out of it. Ie, making it reach full power fairly early in the dial.

  I thought I read somewhere that these are class A amps.  I always wondered how they could produce both 30 and 50 watt amps with the same exact tube compliment.

ICBM

They're fixed bias and most definitely not Class A. The different power output comes mostly from running them at different voltages.

Dave_Mc

It's ages since I've tried one but i didn't think the classic 30 had that much gain. Or at least, usable gain. I kinda discount it once it starts to sound like crap. )

ToneControl

randomhandclaps said:

I've owned a few EL84 amps but have never been satisfied with the tightness of the bass end when driven really hard.  Compared to my EL34 or 6L6 amps it's not so much a lack of low end completely, it just tends to sound a bit ragged when pushed to equal levels.   I would love a sub 50w amp for recording but I just can't find one I am happy with.

I agree, most EL84 amps seem to lack a fullness and power on the bottom end.  DC30s seem to still sound good down there, but all the marshally-voiced ones seem a little weak

For Fendery amps, there are quite a few good quieter ones with 6L6s, but it's not so easy to find satisfying good grittier amps. That Suhr Badger 30 seems popular though, and may I recommend the 6v6-based MJW designs, I think 6v6s work better than el84s for this kind of thing

 

ecc83

Cirrus

ToneControl said:I agree, most EL84 amps seem to lack a fullness and power on the bottom end.  DC30s seem to still sound good down there, but all the marshally-voiced ones seem a little weak

DC30s are basically AC30s with more power filtering, smaller coupling caps and solid state rectifiers iirc?

Pyroman

Dave_Mc said:

It's ages since I've tried one but i didn't think the classic 30 had that much gain. Or at least, usable gain. I kinda discount it once it starts to sound like crap. )

   Lol, I wasn't able to drive it hard in person, just watched lots of demos.  I'm probably NOT the one to ask about high gain anyway- I think most really high gain stuff sounds shit for anything other than low down chugging or rhythm.  I'm more of a low to med gain guy.  This is much more my speed.  I can always throw a dirt pedal in front for the mean sounding stuff.

ToneControl

Cirrus said:

ToneControl said:I agree, most EL84 amps seem to lack a fullness and power on the bottom end.  DC30s seem to still sound good down there, but all the marshally-voiced ones seem a little weak

DC30s are basically AC30s with more power filtering, smaller coupling caps and solid state rectifiers iirc?

it's a valve rectifier. It seems to have more solid bass than the non-AC30-derived EL84 amps I've owned. I don't know the technical reason why, could even be the speaker doping.

Cirrus

well, speakers do make a huge difference. Maybe there's another factor.

ICBM

Massive cabinet. It makes much more of a difference than you'd think - it's also why the Mesa Trem-o-verb sounds so solid... and weighs so much, the chassis is not much heavier than any other 100W amp, the extra mass is all in the woodwork.

From memory the Matchless transformers are quite a bit beefier than Vox ones too.

Dave_Mc

Pyroman said:

Dave_Mc said:

It's ages since I've tried one but i didn't think the classic 30 had that much gain. Or at least, usable gain. I kinda discount it once it starts to sound like crap. )

   Lol, I wasn't able to drive it hard in person, just watched lots of demos.  I'm probably NOT the one to ask about high gain anyway- I think most really high gain stuff sounds shit for anything other than low down chugging or rhythm.  I'm more of a low to med gain guy.  This is much more my speed.  I can always throw a dirt pedal in front for the mean sounding stuff.

No worries. ) I wouldn't really call the classic 30 high gain, more mid-gain.

monkey42

shameless plug but my mesa mini rectifier has mucho gain and a great el84 chime on the clean channel

rocknrollrelic

I'm waiting for my Friedman Pink Taco to arrive any day now. It is the little sister to the Brown Eye and has EL84s inside and is supposed to be amazing. I currently use a Brown Eye which is EL34s and is unbelievable and I am hoping the pink taco will be mind blowing too. If you are interested I will let you know once I have done a few comparisons in my studio!

ESchap

@rocknrollrelic .... Pink taco and brown eye!  great names .....  :-O

rocknrollrelic

Friedman also make an amp called a Dirty Shirley.. Funny name but disgusting meaning! Amazing amps tho! Check out the Led Zeppelin honours video here and you will hear the beautiful white Friedman Brown Eye that belongs to Chris Shiflett.. I am hoping that the Pink Taco still retains that chewy, rock n roll goodness even with its EL84s..



I have an old 1969 Marshall PA20 which has EL84s inside, it really kicks butt, I'm gonna do a shoot out between that and the Pink Taco for sure in the next few weeks!!

Pyroman

  Wow, thanks for that Kennedy Center link!    Some good stuff there.  Michelle Obama didn't look too happy with the Kid rock song, lol.

 I had to go check out the Buddy Guy tribute, and it killed!   They all sounded great, But I especially loved Tracy Chapman, and that lady who sung with Jeff Beck.