Making a garage in to a comfortable practise room....anyone with the knowledge of Building Regs?

Parker

I have quite a large garage that I have always wanted to convert to an additional rtoom. That can wait though as know if would take a lot of work and building regs would apply.

In the mean time, I want to plaster the pig bricks, paint and maybe put a studwall up to divide the room as a band room and utility room.

Is it as simple as doing the work, or do building regs apply?

ToneControl

is it part of the house? I converted an integral one

Have you seen Esmono rooms btw? A used one of these can be great if you want to keep your neighbours happy

fatherjack

Ring your local council and ask for some advice from the Building Control mob.

Col_Decker

Regs Smegs

 

just leave enough room for the fridge, sofa, and TV.

ecc83

Yes, you need to comply with building regs' but. Don't FFS tell them you want to build a sound studio or music practice room! They will get all over your ass about noise egress and "undesirables" coming and going all hours.

Tell then you want a "hobby" room for embroidery or something! *

I know not of building but have some idea of the electrics. Do you have power in there at present? If so the consumer unit must have a built in RCD . If you get a lekky in to wire the place you will need 3 circuits. Lights, utilty power, heating, cooling, kettle etc and a separate circuit for music and computer kit. All these circuits should be wired as "stars" or "radials" not rings cos them hums. It cost a bit more in cable but not a lot, after all I doubt you will pull more than 2kW tops.

*Of course, if this was a COMMERCIAL venture you would have to be squeaky clean and honest upfront if for no other reason than any insurances would be null and void if you tell porkies!

Dave.

PolarityMan

I'd be interested to know how you get on. Ive been doing a bit of googling recently as we're in the middle of trying to buy a house with a garage. It looks like conventional wisdom is a stud wall with mass between the outer and inner walls.

The main thing that is putting me off (besides not actually having the house yet) is the ventilation issues.

ToneControl

is it a remote spot, or do you need it to not let sound escape much?

PolarityMan

The one we're looking at is a residential area and I have designs on playing drums in it so sound reduction is the goal.

octatonic

ecc83 said:

Yes, you need to comply with building regs' but. Don't FFS tell them you want to build a sound studio or music practice room! They will get all over your ass about noise egress and "undesirables" coming and going all hours.

Tell then you want a "hobby" room for embroidery or something! *

+1.

You will struggle to get change of use if you want to put a studio/practice room in.

It is a 'games room'.

ToneControl

most modern construction will be pitiful for sound insulation.

My loud room has thick 2 skin old brick walls, double glazing and then secondary glazing

This works well - you can just hear loud stuff when outdoors, but you have to remember sound escaping through doors, air vents, through the ceiling, etc 

Ultimate trick is Esmono rooms, £5k + second hand

 

Danny1969

Before I built a real studio I converted my garage into a studio. The level of noise reduction I was able to achieve using nothing more than plasterboard, rockwool and double door and window allowed me to track guitars at ridiculous volume in the middle of the night without any complaints from the neighbours. Got a pic here :

 

As for telling anyone I'm not sure you have to unless you convert it into a bedroom. 

Danny1969

Thinking back I think the regs applied If you want to make it habitable space. As long as you don't want to live in it I would imagine you can do what  you want in your own garage

ecc83

"Thinking back I think the regs applied If you want to make it habitable space. As long as you don't want to live in it I would imagine you can do what  you want in your own garage"

Bit of a legal nightmare IIRC. I know 30years ago when I had a loft conversion done I could not call it a "bedroom" even tho' it was always going to be used as such. Then of course there was then complications with the old rates? 

Certainly anything done structurally has to meet certain "falling down" and fire regulations. If you just blunder on SOME nosey bastard is sure to bubble you to the council! Then you could be faced with a costly UN build.

Dave.

benvall

What kind of construction is it? Single brick skin? You'll loose a fair bit of space but as @Danny1969 said building and internal room from stud, rockwool insulation, vapour control layer and plasterboard will really reduce the sound transference. The vapour control layer should stop the dew point forming in the stud / insulation.

Just thought what do you want in the room? Toilet, kitchen or just a room?

Bogwhoppit

ecc83 said:

Yes, you need to comply with building regs' but. Don't FFS tell them you want to build a sound studio or music practice room!

 

MASSIVE +1 !   

Do not under any circumstance mention 'Music Room', 'Film Room', 'Special sound proof orgy room'.   Nothing that infers sound.  My mate built a small cinema room in his house, the guy who drew up the plans and submitted them to the council left the words 'music room' on the drawings. The resulting hassle and cost building regs have put him through is akin to an EU directive for square apples.

surfguy13

Really pleased to see that this subject is being discussed!  I am about to embark on getting our integral single garage converted into a room in which I can play without causing too much ag to neighbours.  This came about after a neighbour complained, twice, to the council about 'electric guitar music'.  Unfortunately the council assume guilt until you prove you're not causing a nuisance.  A very easy way to wind someone up!!

I have spent some time looking into the options available in order to create a usable soundproofed room without going too far over the top.  The difficulty most people face is......how far do I go?  If you speak to specialist suppliers and some of the companies that install studios it can kill the concept dead due, in the main, to the complexity of creating a tomb-like environment that has to be ventilated and which will cost over £10,000 on the soundproofing products alone.  Most of us don't need this!!  Unless of course you're a drummer and then you have to go that extra mile.

My main concern was finding a compromise between loss of physical space due to the depth of stud walls/resiliant bars/ soundproofing products and having enough space to work whilst at the same time having a reasonably well soundproofed space.  The garage we have is not massive and if we had gone with the optimum in terms of proofing walls it would have been like a corridor.

First of all, in 99% of cases you don't need planning permission but you do need to involve building control.  This ISN'T a big deal.  You pay a fee and that's that.  They inspect the build at intervals and as long as you are doing it properly, and there's no point in not doing it properly, then they won't give you any hassle.

The external walls of the garage are cavity with heavy thermal blocks on the inside/space/bricks.  Internal walls are thermal blocks.

We're going for a screed floor rather than a suspended floor......much, MUCH better option.  The floor will then need some matting prior to installing floor coverings.  Consider underfloor heating as you don't want rads in the room.

Up and over door will go and in it's place a brick/thermal block wall with outer triple glazed window and inner double glazed with about a 6-8" gap between the two.

Ceiling is currently plaster-boarded - this will come down and resiliant bars will be fitted to joists.  Plasterboard  (2 x 15mm acoustic plasterboard with green glue/acoustic matting between) will then fix to the resiliant bars with insulation behind.  Ceilings are a major issue.

Walls will be stud and 100mm each side....these will sit on neoprene strips so no part of the stud is in contact with existing walls or floor.  This dramatically reduces sound transfer.

We will use 2 x 15mm  sheets of acoustic plasterboard on the walls with either green glue or acoustic matting sandwiched between.....haven't decided yet.  Good quality insulation will fill the gap between stud and existing walls.

Door into house will go and frame will be fitted with rubber seals and, to save money, a fire door will be installed instead of a 'studio door'.

We already have electric in the room and a fuse box so that helps a lot.

That is an incredibly simplistic overview but I wanted to make it clear that the process is easy, hassle-free and as long as your expectations aren't too high....i.e. zero sound-spill..... it IS worth doing.  I reckon cost will be in the region of £7000-£8000 using a builder and worth every penny. 

Danny1969

@surfguy13

That kind of seems a lot of money for what is basically timber, plasterboard and blocks. The garage I did cost less than £2000 in materials, and that included double door entry, suspended floor, false ceiling  and concrete wall in place of garage doors.  I guess it's a lot of labour though. 

Re your floor idea, if you don't suspend the floor then there's no point decoupling the walls as low energy will simply go through the floor anyway. 

For us guitarist it's not necessary to go mad to go mad. A normal guitar has very little below 100Hz so stopping it annoying your neighbours is do-able quite cheaply. Drums often come up in discussions like this as the worse thing to stop but it's actually bass guitar or low keys that is the hardest.  

ToneControl

@surfguy13

I converted my last garage - very cheaply, the house still allowed too much noise out for the neighbours

If you move house you will of course lose your investment, whereas a garage-sized Esmono room would cost about the same, and could be moved to your next house

http://www.studiospares.com/isolation-booths/esmono-4x37x2metre-high-room/invt/411540

http://www.esmono.co.uk/

 

used Esmono rooms come up around half price every month or 2

surfguy13

Danny1969 said:

@surfguy13

That kind of seems a lot of money for what is basically timber, plasterboard and blocks. The garage I did cost less than £2000 in materials, and that included double door entry, suspended floor, false ceiling  and concrete wall in place of garage doors.  I guess it's a lot of labour though. 

Re your floor idea, if you don't suspend the floor then there's no point decoupling the walls as low energy will simply go through the floor anyway. 

For us guitarist it's not necessary to go mad to go mad. A normal guitar has very little below 100Hz so stopping it annoying your neighbours is do-able quite cheaply. Drums often come up in discussions like this as the worse thing to stop but it's actually bass guitar or low keys that is the hardest.  

I agree, it is a lot of money but a vast majority of the cost is down to what you pay a builder!  I have no experience of building anything at all and I'm deeply reluctant to even attempt to do this myself.  The price I have quoted in my post is inclusive of everything...materials, building costs, building control fees, internal flooring, bass traps, wiring etc etc etc.  I guess I could get an el cheapo builder in to do it but would I get an el cheapo job?  I don't have the experience to know one way or the other.

I agree with @ToneControl too.......it's a hell of a lot of cash to chuck at it and then find you're not reducing sound leakage enough. That's one of the reasons I haven't pressed the button yet.  Unfortunately the only way you're going to now if your spec is man enough is to spend the money and do the work but................?!! 

Maybe the solution is to start sticking dig shit through my neighbour's letter box............?  

surfguy13

Urm.....that was meant to say 'dog' shit not dig shit!!!!  

The esmono units do look like an excellent idea too.....I'm going to seriously look into that.  As @ToneControl wisely says, they can be moved when you next up sticks.  Masses of food for thought!

koneguitarist

I allways turn down, it's cheaper.