Floyd Rose

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DeijavooDeijavoo Frets: 3298
Just received a new guitar today which has popped my Floyd cherry (well it's actually a Gotoh one), and to be honest I'm absolutely lost as to what to do with it.

How do I change strings? Normal allen keys is it? Or do I need really long or straight ones to not damage the body?

Mine also has locking Hipshot tuners but the tuning seems to go at the first divebomb, is that right?

How do I fix the position of the bar? I always thought that was one of the best bits and mine is floppy.

How do I quickly raise or lower the action from the bridge? I'm a Gibson man normally and this has thrown me!



Ooh, I feel like I've just started all over again.
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  • mike_lmike_l Frets: 5700
    I use normal Allen Keys. I have plenty of spares if you need one.

    Ringleader of the Cambridge cartel, pedal champ and king of the dirt boxes (down to 21) 

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  • DeijavooDeijavoo Frets: 3298
    It's cool mate, I'm off into town soon to buy some as I have loads of them lying about but none the right size.

    Thanks though Mike.
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  • mike_lmike_l Frets: 5700
    For raising/lowering the action, there is an allen head on the pivot points of the trem. You shouldn't need to adjust them too much. When you change strings you don't need to do the clamps up mentally tight, just nip them. And, if, when you have the strings off, you turn the guitar over, be careful not to lose the clamping blocks in the bridge.

    Ringleader of the Cambridge cartel, pedal champ and king of the dirt boxes (down to 21) 

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  • mike_lmike_l Frets: 5700

    Ringleader of the Cambridge cartel, pedal champ and king of the dirt boxes (down to 21) 

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  • ThePrettyDamnedThePrettyDamned Frets: 7472
    edited November 2013
    Should not go out of tune. Is the nut locked? Are the strings stretched in? If they're old, they might not be great too. If they're new, they will need stretching and retuning for a while before locking the nut. Tuning should be invincible after that - my old bc rich survived temperature changes, manic dive bombs and 4th pitch raises on the b string without going out.

    There was a fab video for setting up a Floyd. I'll see if I can find it.

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  • DarrenDarren Frets: 168
    Dave. with regard to the trem arm it should slot in and screw down like a strat..the Gotoh trem arms don't have the collar on them like a floyd rose.. Put the arm in a screw in clockwise..that will tighten up the arm.. Also where the trem arm goes in there should be a tiny grub screw that also secures the arm in the slot.. I have a gotoh on my charvel San Dimas and there great units.. :-) Darren
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  • DeijavooDeijavoo Frets: 3298
    Cheers guys, each have a wisdom!

    Yeah, I'm really happy with the guitar but I did wonder if I'd been wrong about tuning stability. The strings seem pretty new, so I guess just need stretched in. 

    Will have a watch on that video too, cheers Pretty.
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  • Andyjr1515Andyjr1515 Frets: 3127
    edited November 2013
    The main thing with a Floyd Rose is to take a little time to look how it works and take the mystique (and fear) out of them.  

    Ref the string height, you adjust the two screws that the knife edges rest on - exactly as you would a LP tune-o-matic. (Do it when the strings are fairly loose otherwise you will knacker your knife-edges)

    Ref the locking Hipshot tuners, they really don't do anything once everything is locked up, so don't worry about those

    Ref the headstock bar - they absolutely don't do anything once everything is locked up, so don't worry about those either (I take mine off because they just get in the way)

    Ref clamping the strings at the trem end - remember to cut off the ball-ends - open up the clamp, stick the end in until it bottoms, clamp it up - easier than an acoustic because you're not going to have the pegs pulling out!

    Before you string the top end, put the micro tuners on the trem itself into a middle-ish position - then you know once the top end is clamped up, you can sharpen or flatten the string just with those

    Ref the top end - TAKE THE NUT CLAMPS OFF AT FIRST - string it up as normal - tune it up and stretch the strings as normal.  Remember, however, it is a floating bridge (just like a strat that hasn't been blocked it up).  Tuning is iterative...as you tune one string, the bridge moves so it affects the tuning of the other strings.   Basically you tune up, then recheck, tune up, check, tune up - 4 - 5 times.  You will realise that the tuning of each string gets closer and closer until it is in tune on all strings.

    THEN PUT THE NUT CLAMPS BACK ON and tighten.

    Recheck the tuning but now only adjust with the micro tuners on the trem itself.  They are a lot more accurate than normal machine heads (but remember, the tuning is still iterative, though the adjustments by now should be very small).

    Once clamped, remember now NOT to turn the machine heads - they are now not doing anything and you will just break the top bit of the string.

    If you find, over a period of time or temperature change, etc, you run out of adjustment on the micro-tuners, simply loosen the nut clamps, turn the micro tuners back to mid-position, tune with the machine heads, reclamp, fine adjust with the micro tuners.

    It is, incidentally, remarkable how well FR guitars keep in tune...between gigs as well as during violent whammy stuff. 

    Hope this helps

    Andy

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  • mike_lmike_l Frets: 5700
    Also I use a little "nut sauce" on the knife edges so they have some lubricant on them. Literally a tiny amount.

    Ringleader of the Cambridge cartel, pedal champ and king of the dirt boxes (down to 21) 

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  • vizviz Frets: 10644
    On those gotos, if it's an old one, raising and lowering the bridge has an extra issue: the posts have 2 allen holes in them - a wide shallow one, and then further in, a small deep one. You have to undo the small deep one first - that's a little grub screw to lock the post - then you use the big one to wind the post in or out; when you've finished, you nip the small one tight again. You will break it if you don't do this, and the posts will always wobble.
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • vizviz Frets: 10644
    And if the arm doesn't tighten, the little plastic bush inside will be broken and the grub screw won't tighten it. Those bushes are impossible to get now so I made a small rubber insert with a 5mm hole that clamps the 6mm arm nice and snug and allows good ping warble flutter gargles. http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab217/Vizzage/Gear/image-6_zpsb0f45497.jpg
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • DeijavooDeijavoo Frets: 3298
    Thanks guys. I knew you'd be a great wealth of wisdom. 

    I'm also guessing that the newish strings he sent it with are 10s maybe even 9 and I normally use 11-56, sometimes 12s so maybe I'm hitting them far too hard too? 

    Anyhow, day of sorting this bad boy out. I can smell the pinched harmonic bar raises now!

    Cheers. 
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  • DeijavooDeijavoo Frets: 3298
    Hhmmm, 

    The issue now is that it's staying fairly sharp after a raise and slightly flat on a bomb....


    Eurgh, any ideas guys before I end up flogging this otherwise lovely guitar?


    Cheers. 
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  • meltedbuzzboxmeltedbuzzbox Frets: 10337
    edited November 2013
    Floyd's don't go out of tune as stated. Loosen of the locking nuts. Physically stretch the strings (fret at the 1st and pull the string away from the body/neck. Tune up, play a little. Do this 3 or 4 times then it should be perfect. I can pick my guitar up by the trem arm and it stays in tune. 

    Also keep an eye on the micro tuners. Keep them half way, with maybe the exception on the high e, keep more room to sharpen that. Make sure nuts and trem screws are tight
    The Bigsby was the first successful design of what is now called a whammy bar or tremolo arm, although vibrato is the technically correct term for the musical effect it produces. In standard usage, tremolo is a rapid fluctuation of the volume of a note, while vibrato is a fluctuation in pitch. The origin of this nonstandard usage of the term by electric guitarists is attributed to Leo Fender, who also used the term “vibrato” to refer to what is really a tremolo effect.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71956
    edited November 2013
    Deijavoo said:

    The issue now is that it's staying fairly sharp after a raise and slightly flat on a bomb....

    Eurgh, any ideas guys before I end up flogging this otherwise lovely guitar?
    Probably worn knife edges.

    If the tuning sticks in the *same* direction as the last bridge movement, the problem is at the bridge end. If it sticks in the *opposite* direction, the problem is at the nut end.

    Try greasing the knife edges - slacken the strings right off or you won't get any in where it's needed.

    Also check the springs aren't rubbing against the sides or floor of the cavity round the back.


    A well-set-up Floyd in good condition is so stable that you can literally take the bridge out of the guitar by removing the springs round the back, change pickups or whatever else you need to do under the guard, put the bridge and the springs back, and it will be in tune! Without touching the strings at all. Astonishing, but I've done it many times when working on guitars :D.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • DeijavooDeijavoo Frets: 3298
    edited November 2013

    ICBM said:
    Probably worn knife edges.

    If the tuning sticks in the *same* direction as the last bridge movement, the problem is at the bridge end. If it sticks in the *opposite* direction, the problem is at the nut end.

    Try greasing the knife edges - slacken the strings right off or you won't get any in where it's needed.

    Also check the springs aren't rubbing against the sides or floor of the cavity round the back.
    Tried greasing the knife edges, took the bridge right out to make sure it was in the right place, a little better on down pushes but raising it is just as bad for sticking sharp.

    I thought springs at first so bought some new ones, but no better and they're totally clear.


    My mate who works on acoustic based instruments was doing everything for me as I'm no good with this stuff and it's just fucked us both off all night.

    I love the feel (with no bar) and absolutely love the sound of this guitar but I think i'm gonna stick it back on eBay to someone who knows what they're doing with this kind of thing.

    Back to Gibsons and Teles for me I'd say.

    :-(

    Cheers for all your help guys.
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  • DeijavooDeijavoo Frets: 3298
    edited December 2013

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  • Can you get a replacement bridge maybe? Not cheap, though... :/
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71956
    Deijavoo said:
    Tried greasing the knife edges, took the bridge right out to make sure it was in the right place, a little better on down pushes but raising it is just as bad for sticking sharp.
    If it's sticking like that in the same direction as you moved the bridge, it is definitely a bridge pivot problem - there's friction somewhere which is stopping it floating cleanly back to pitch.

    If greasing the knife edges didn't fix it, you may have to sharpen them, or the grooves in the posts. Have a close look at the knife edges - they should be *really* sharp, without burrs on the blades. If they're OK, turning the posts round a bit can work if they haven't already been damaged all the way round. Adjusting them under full string tension is the easiest way to knacker them though, and does tend to go all the way round. You will need some small files to do this. If they're too far gone you'll need new posts.

    If you love the guitar otherwise it's worth persisting - they're not that difficult to fix, and they do work well when they are.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • DeijavooDeijavoo Frets: 3298
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