Laney Ironheart

gearaddict

We used some Ironheart half stacks at practice tonight and I was really surprised how awful they sounded. Thin and yet fizzy, harsh and unpleasant. And the matching 4x12s were the most directional cabs I have ever played through - you could barely hear what you were playing standing slightly off centre but if you stood in front of the cab it almost took your head off.

Really surprised and disappointed...maybe it's the cabs.

ThePrettyDamned

I definitely wouldn't describe them as fizzy, they have tons of gain but keep it at around 4 and you have a kick arse metal rhythm tone.

Andy James from sacred mother tongue uses them, all stock with matching cab. Perhaps a valve is on its way out?

As for the directional cabs, I'm not sure - perhaps the cabs are crap, or maybe the room acoustics happened to be weird with them? Seems a shame if they're crap cabs!

Grumpyrocker

Turn the tone down a bit.

With the Ironheart it's best to put the master volume on full and use the channel volumes. Keeping the master low and putting the channel volumes high can make it sound fizzy. So even playing at home I put the master half way up.

guitarfishbay

I own the IRT120h and use it at least weekly at band volume.

gearaddict said:

We used some Ironheart half stacks at practice tonight and I was really surprised how awful they sounded. Thin and yet fizzy, harsh and unpleasant. And the matching 4x12s were the most directional cabs I have ever played through - you could barely hear what you were playing standing slightly off centre but if you stood in front of the cab it almost took your head off.

Really surprised and disappointed...maybe it's the cabs.

Couple of questions -

What amp/cab are you used to?

What style do you play?

How did you set up the Ironheart?

To me this sounds like you used a straight 4x12 and aren't used to using one?  Straight cabs are more directional than angled ones, and Laney cabs are quite compact which probably makes it worse.

I have never used the stock cab but I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't fantastic as I've heard a few complaints of the sound of the combos which have the same speakers.

I've tried my IRT120h through so many cabs now I'll probably forget some - Mesa Recto 2x12 + 4x12 (OS straight and regular sized slant), Orange PPC212 + 4x12, Zilla Super Fatboy (V30s), Harley Benton G212 Vintage, Laney TT412 (V30/seventy 80), Marshall 1960B, EVH412, Blackstar S1412B.

One of the main reasons I've kept the Ironheart over any other 'cheap' high gain valve amp is that it seems to sound good through any 'quality' cab.  As someone who plays originals this is great, as several gigs wind up being cab share gigs at the low end of the circuit.  IMO the amp sounds best with V30s.  I've often thought the reason it isn't too picky about cabs is that it doesn't really sag much and doesn't saturate that much either compared to other modern heads (e.g. 5150s/Rectifiers).

The other reason I kept it was that I like the tone!  And it is voiced well for cutting through, which is good for me as I tend to play the lead parts in my band.

ThePrettyDamned said:

I definitely wouldn't describe them as fizzy, they have tons of gain but keep it at around 4 and you have a kick arse metal rhythm tone.

Gain around 4?  I'll need to check after work but IIRC unless you've got super hot pickups or are using a boost 4 will still be a crunchy sound.  I think I have my gain at around 7 on the rhythm channel and sometimes kick in a bit of boost from a tubescreamer when more punch is needed.  The amp has enough gain but it doesn't really saturate much on its own - it tends to keep quite clear, dry and bitey without a boost.

For some reason I'm thinking the lead channel gets 'metal' about 6 on the gain dial.  Will check tonight.  But 4 definitely seems a little too low to me off the top of my head - I've got a strong pick attack and am even using hot pickups at the minute (HFS in a PRS).

Grumpyrocker said:

Turn the tone down a bit.

With the Ironheart it's best to put the master volume on full and use the channel volumes. Keeping the master low and putting the channel volumes high can make it sound fizzy. So even playing at home I put the master half way up.

Agreed - by master he means 'watts' control.  I always run it full everywhere.  I actually wish it was a real master volume as I keep having to set up all 3 volumes individually every time I need a different volume.

-----------------

Some extra tips -

The footswitch gets a lot of flack but it isn't that bad.

There are two switches for 3 channels.  This is beacause the clean channel is a mode of the rhythm channel - the sound passes through the EQ but not the gain stages to distort it (if my limited understanding is correct!).  The clean itself is pretty dull/characterless but it is actually clean and it does have its own volume level so it is useful if you want a typical clinical clean tone.

The lead switch takes precedence - no matter what any other switch is doing, hitting lead takes you to the lead channel.

The clean/rhythm switch is a mode switch.  It changes the mode of the rhytthm channel between clean or rhythm.  You can change this mode while in lead mode and the amp will not change channel until you disengage lead mode.

Also,

The onboard boost is linear.  Unless you want a linear boost I'd suggest ignoring this and using a TS type boost instead.  The best use I've found for the onboard boost is to boost the signal level of a single coil guitar to roughly the same volume as a humbucker guitar if you use both in a set.  This means you don't have to go and change your gain settings to get the saturation right, assuming you want a similar level of saturation.

Grumpyrocker

No I mean master volume. It may say "Watts" on it. Laney may claim it's some sort of power scaling.

But it is just a post phase-inverter master volume. 

guitarfishbay

Grumpyrocker said:

No I mean master volume. It may say "Watts" on it. Laney may claim it's some sort of power scaling.

But it is just a post phase-inverter master volume. 

It does say watts on it though, which is what I meant to highlight so he went to the right control.

It is an annoying control none the less.  When we rehearse loud my amp is at about 4.5 channel volume, ear plugs in so the drummer can bash away as if he's at a gig.  If we drop down to work on song writing even if I turn 'watts' down to minimum it is too loud with earplugs removed.  So I have to also drop the channel volumes.

If it was a normal master volume I could leave my channel volumes set and never touch them.  It is my main complaint with the amp actually, I like the voicing and can live with the foot switch (though I do wish it was a bit wider!).

Drew_TNBD

I personally wasn't too keen on the 60-watt I tried, but it was a combo, and Laney use those GODFRAKINGAWFUL HH drivers. I've seen a lot of love for the heads on the metal circuit.

gearaddict

Yeah there was probably a fair amount of user error involved...I haven't used the amps before and they are fairly complex so I just plugged in and twiddled, trying to get a decent basic rock tone. I settled on the crunch channel and tweaked from there. After about a minute I pretty much gave up. Mine had 2 power tubes (looked like 6L6s) and the other guitarist's had 4 6L6s. I found mine incredibly fizzy and compressed sounding but the other one was bright / harsh city.

I'm probably not giving them a fair go but I suppose if I don't get a nice tone fairly immediately I just put the amp in the "not for me" bucket.

guitarfishbay

gearaddict said:

Yeah there was probably a fair amount of user error involved...I haven't used the amps before and they are fairly complex so I just plugged in and twiddled, trying to get a decent basic rock tone. I settled on the crunch channel and tweaked from there. After about a minute I pretty much gave up. Mine had 2 power tubes (looked like 6L6s) and the other guitarist's had 4 6L6s. I found mine incredibly fizzy and compressed sounding but the other one was bright / harsh city.

I'm probably not giving them a fair go but I suppose if I don't get a nice tone fairly immediately I just put the amp in the "not for me" bucket.

Maybe it is the cab, or maybe you just don't like the voicing of the amp.  It wouldn't be my first choice for anything subtle or warm sounding but if you want cut, bite, and clarity with a modern voicing I think it is great.  I don't find my 120h bright or harsh through V30s but I might be going for a more aggressive tone than you to begin with.  As Drew said these are getting lots of love in metal/hard rock circles.

My settings aren't anything out of the ordinary.  From memory - rhythm EQ is dead centre, lead EQ has slightly reduced bass and slightly increased treble, dynamics and tone are pretty central through a V30/seventy 80 X pattern 4x12 cab.  I think I have gain at about 7 on both channels.

I don't think the amp is hard to set up but it does look a bit confusing to begin with.

Dynamics is basically resonance.

Tone is basically presence.

The boost can be ignored for the most part, and the watts control is probably best left at full.

Once you get past all that you're basically left with 2 gain channels with 3 band EQ, volume, gain, a clean volume control, and master presence and resonance.  So not too different from most multi channel high gain heads.

I mostly recommend the amp head to people otherwise looking at Peavey 6505s.  I think the Ironheart is a better deal in the UK for price and performance, plus it has a clean channel that most heavy players would be happy with as it stays really clean really loud.  The voicing really suits aggressive music and the clarity and cut in the voicing makes them ideal for live use especially in twin guitar bands IMO.

If you've got hot enough pickups and a strong enough pick attack you can get a good tight-ish high gain sound out of these without a boost, which again makes them quite easy to use live as you don't have to keep worrying about switching a boost on and off to go to clean.  

The only other high gain 3 channel head I've tried that I think is as 'plug in and play' for clean / high gain rhythm / high gain lead is the EVH 5150 iii 100, but that is in a totally different price bracket.

I don't think any one amp works for everyone though.

leerocker

guitarfishbay said:

gearaddict said:

Yeah there was probably a fair amount of user error involved...I haven't used the amps before and they are fairly complex so I just plugged in and twiddled, trying to get a decent basic rock tone. I settled on the crunch channel and tweaked from there. After about a minute I pretty much gave up. Mine had 2 power tubes (looked like 6L6s) and the other guitarist's had 4 6L6s. I found mine incredibly fizzy and compressed sounding but the other one was bright / harsh city.

I'm probably not giving them a fair go but I suppose if I don't get a nice tone fairly immediately I just put the amp in the "not for me" bucket.

Maybe it is the cab, or maybe you just don't like the voicing of the amp.  It wouldn't be my first choice for anything subtle or warm sounding but if you want cut, bite, and clarity with a modern voicing I think it is great.  I don't find my 120h bright or harsh through V30s but I might be going for a more aggressive tone than you to begin with.  As Drew said these are getting lots of love in metal/hard rock circles.

My settings aren't anything out of the ordinary.  From memory - rhythm EQ is dead centre, lead EQ has slightly reduced bass and slightly increased treble, dynamics and tone are pretty central through a V30/seventy 80 X pattern 4x12 cab.  I think I have gain at about 7 on both channels.

I don't think the amp is hard to set up but it does look a bit confusing to begin with.

Dynamics is basically resonance.

Tone is basically presence.

The boost can be ignored for the most part, and the watts control is probably best left at full.

Once you get past all that you're basically left with 2 gain channels with 3 band EQ, volume, gain, a clean volume control, and master presence and resonance.  So not too different from most multi channel high gain heads.

I mostly recommend the amp head to people otherwise looking at Peavey 6505s.  I think the Ironheart is a better deal in the UK for price and performance, plus it has a clean channel that most heavy players would be happy with as it stays really clean really loud.  The voicing really suits aggressive music and the clarity and cut in the voicing makes them ideal for live use especially in twin guitar bands IMO.

If you've got hot enough pickups and a strong enough pick attack you can get a good tight-ish high gain sound out of these without a boost, which again makes them quite easy to use live as you don't have to keep worrying about switching a boost on and off to go to clean.  

The only other high gain 3 channel head I've tried that I think is as 'plug in and play' for clean / high gain rhythm / high gain lead is the EVH 5150 iii 100, but that is in a totally different price bracket.

I don't think any one amp works for everyone though.

ive owned both and for the money the ironheart is tough to beat, as when i first bought mine when they came out i played it through the laney cab and it was awful to say the least, again like guitarfishbay says through a decent cab with v30s or greenbacks its a great amp and out performs many more expensive amps. i will never sell my 5150 iii been using mine for 2 years for covers and originals and it is such a versatile amp, but for £600 new you cant go wrong with an ironheart.

Grumpyrocker

I play mine through a 2x12 loaded with V30s. Does sound fab. I've not heart through a Laney cab so can't comment on the quality. But I'm certainly very happy with my amp.

Discovered recently that the lead channel does a very nice fat bluesy breakup - better than using the more usual crunch channel. 

samzadgan

leerocker said:

guitarfishbay said:

gearaddict said:

Yeah there was probably a fair amount of user error involved...I haven't used the amps before and they are fairly complex so I just plugged in and twiddled, trying to get a decent basic rock tone. I settled on the crunch channel and tweaked from there. After about a minute I pretty much gave up. Mine had 2 power tubes (looked like 6L6s) and the other guitarist's had 4 6L6s. I found mine incredibly fizzy and compressed sounding but the other one was bright / harsh city.

I'm probably not giving them a fair go but I suppose if I don't get a nice tone fairly immediately I just put the amp in the "not for me" bucket.

Maybe it is the cab, or maybe you just don't like the voicing of the amp.  It wouldn't be my first choice for anything subtle or warm sounding but if you want cut, bite, and clarity with a modern voicing I think it is great.  I don't find my 120h bright or harsh through V30s but I might be going for a more aggressive tone than you to begin with.  As Drew said these are getting lots of love in metal/hard rock circles.

My settings aren't anything out of the ordinary.  From memory - rhythm EQ is dead centre, lead EQ has slightly reduced bass and slightly increased treble, dynamics and tone are pretty central through a V30/seventy 80 X pattern 4x12 cab.  I think I have gain at about 7 on both channels.

I don't think the amp is hard to set up but it does look a bit confusing to begin with.

Dynamics is basically resonance.

Tone is basically presence.

The boost can be ignored for the most part, and the watts control is probably best left at full.

Once you get past all that you're basically left with 2 gain channels with 3 band EQ, volume, gain, a clean volume control, and master presence and resonance.  So not too different from most multi channel high gain heads.

I mostly recommend the amp head to people otherwise looking at Peavey 6505s.  I think the Ironheart is a better deal in the UK for price and performance, plus it has a clean channel that most heavy players would be happy with as it stays really clean really loud.  The voicing really suits aggressive music and the clarity and cut in the voicing makes them ideal for live use especially in twin guitar bands IMO.

If you've got hot enough pickups and a strong enough pick attack you can get a good tight-ish high gain sound out of these without a boost, which again makes them quite easy to use live as you don't have to keep worrying about switching a boost on and off to go to clean.  

The only other high gain 3 channel head I've tried that I think is as 'plug in and play' for clean / high gain rhythm / high gain lead is the EVH 5150 iii 100, but that is in a totally different price bracket.

I don't think any one amp works for everyone though.

ive owned both and for the money the ironheart is tough to beat, as when i first bought mine when they came out i played it through the laney cab and it was awful to say the least, again like guitarfishbay says through a decent cab with v30s or greenbacks its a great amp and out performs many more expensive amps. i will never sell my 5150 iii been using mine for 2 years for covers and originals and it is such a versatile amp, but for £600 new you cant go wrong with an ironheart.

I believe i bought your Laney 120H…I play it through a 2x12 Zilla with v30's…and can't be happier with the result.

I play doom/stoner metal, so the last think i want is a thin and fizzy sounding amp. My tone is all based on dark and full tones and this amp definitely delivers on that, it may take some tweaking, but it easily gets me there.

I use the amp in two ways…depending on my mood…

1. Distortion - I use amp distortion, and always have the boost on (with it dialled at about 6-7). I use the lead channel with gain at about 8, with EQ knobs all pulled out,  bass is at +3, Mids at +1, treble at +3. When i use amp distortion, i also don't use the clean channel, i prefer the rhythm channel with an ever slight amount of gain and the EQ is pretty much the same with my bass being lower at +2 and the boost is always on.

2. Fuzz - I use pedal board and have the amp on clean with no boost. 

as for the global settings, i always have the Dynamics dimed, Tone at +3/4, Reverb at 5 (if not using pedalboard) and watts at about 60w at home and 120w at rehearsals.

The point i agree on is the clean sound being a little dull…but the one thing i have been toying with is putting EL34's to see if that makes any difference on the clean tones…anyone done that mod yet?

Grumpyrocker

Every so often I swap over for EL34 for a bit, just for a change. There's less effect on the clean channel than with the dirt. But I like what it does to the dirt - a more obviously British sound.

I recently finally worked out some decent four-cable-method settings for my POD HD500 - and this week I'm going to experiment using it to bypass the Laney clean channel and put a modelled Fender pre-amp in the mix. Will be interesting.

Though I've not had too much problem with the Ironheart clean channel, it's not amazing, but I've had much worse.

guitarfishbay

@Grumpyrocker remember that if you use 4CM and bypass the Ironheart pre you're pretty much going straight to the power amp set on full (if 'watts' is on full).  Start with the volume on the POD pre sim as low as it will go and turn up to match the Ironheart gain channels and you'll be fine.

I agree re: the clean channel.  I've currently given up on 4CM effects and gone back to a normal pedal board, which means back to the regular clean channel.  It isn't anything special but it works!

Grumpyrocker

guitarfishbay said:

@Grumpyrocker remember that if you use 4CM and bypass the Ironheart pre you're pretty much going straight to the power amp set on full (if 'watts' is on full).  Start with the volume on the POD pre sim as low as it will go and turn up to match the Ironheart gain channels and you'll be fine.

Oh yeah, definitely know that already - but worth you mentioning it for readers that might not realise and then blow their head off! When I get around to trying this today I'll be creating the patch without the amp switched on and the modelled pre-amp set to zero volume. I'll then switch the amp on and bring in the modelled pre-amp gradually. I have a blank 4CM template on the POD HD I created with all the right settings I've worked out and I copied this to every space on my 4CM setlist - so whenever I create a new patch I don't have to redo all the settings. It's taken me ages to get a 4CM setup on the POD but I'm now there.