More Mesa Boogie pricing madness

fretmeister

http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Bass_Amps/prodigy/bassProdigy.html

Lovely.

So USA price is $1799 (About £1100)

And £1900.00 here.

ICBM

Welcome to the world of UK Mesa pricing… ie a complete and utter rip-off. (Australia is as bad apparently.)

No matter how good they are, I'll never buy a new one until they stop doing this - I fully understand that US-made equipment will cost more here than it does there - there are shipping and import costs, and a profit for the distributor to factor in - but other US brands don't mark them up anywhere near as much.

Adam_MD

The only reason I bought my Mesa new was because I bought it in the states while it was end of line. I paid around a quarter of what they were going for in the UK.

ROOG

I had a tip from a dealer that Mesa were considering a review of pricing in the UK, that was 9 months ago, so much for that tip.

Still at least that solved my GAS for a while!

ChrisMusic

I find it hard to believe that they have much higher UK than US costs.  Do they 'self distribute' stateside?  That seems the only way the US price should be significantly lower.  If they are paying for a US distributor then that should level the playing field.  There are US federal and state taxes to add to advertised pricing, and obviously extra shipping and import duty and VAT here in the UK, but that is still nothing like in line with their UK pricing.

Many companies in different spheres sell UK at 1:1 £:$, which always strikes me as a rip off.  We have historically had a lower standard of living, lower comparable wages and pay significantly more than our US brothers for just about everything.  And it's not just about market size either, the EU block has a pretty large population at higher density (read lower distribution cost) than the US too.

Si_

I enquired about a Mark V Headshell a month or so ago.. $299 in the USA, £599 here. No way that import duties and taxes can explain the price hikes.

It's pure greed..

sted

What are Marshall prices like over there? Not trying to be clever, genuinely interested as to if UK companies exporting have the same pricing anomalies for US buyers.

Van_Hayden

Distribution margin. That's all it is. Admittedly it's a big margin but it's not really down to Boogie, they're not big enough to run their own European distribution and support.

I think Marshall gave a deal with Korg in the US that's not quite as big but they're traditionally similar to Boogie pricing over there. Could have changed....

We've done a lot of mark V conversions at Matamp. You get a 112 and a head box for about the same price as the sleeve.

ICBM

Van_Hayden said:

Distribution margin. That's all it is. Admittedly it's a big margin but it's not really down to Boogie, they're not big enough to run their own European distribution and support.

They could easily put pressure on the distributor to do something about it if they wanted to though. It isn't impossible that they might… I have heard a rumour about the UK sales figures for a certain new model that they thought would do very well over here, and didn't - probably because it was just too overpriced.

octatonic

ICBM said:

Welcome to the world of UK Mesa pricing… ie a complete and utter rip-off. (Australia is as bad apparently.)

No matter how good they are, I'll never buy a new one until they stop doing this - I fully understand that US-made equipment will cost more here than it does there - there are shipping and import costs, and a profit for the distributor to factor in - but other US brands don't mark them up anywhere near as much.

Australia is much, much worse.

Mesa Mark V:

US Price: $2499 USD (£1550)

UK Price: £2399

Australian Price: $4995 AUD (£2995)

FIVE FUCKING GRAND.

Believe me, before we go back I will be stocking up.

Van_Hayden

I wouldn't be surprised if distribution shifted. They share a distribution company with Lehle and their prices jumped 60% when that deal was done 10 years ago or so.

ChrisMusic

Ten years ago we had a buoyant economy, and there may well have been some elitist thinking in premium pricing, and 'what you can get away with'.  And yes that is raw '80s greed is good mentality IMO.  If it didn't hurt the units sold figure too much then they were making good money, and Mesa would be happy as they were shifting units (which is the only way to make profits).

If the distribution is hurting unit sales, beyond the damage caused by the (greed lead) global economic downturn, then I think Mesa would be keen on renewing distribution agreements on more sensible terms, whichever side of the globe that applies to.

It is economic madness to have negative growth, units sitting unsold or production unnecessarily slowed just to hold an elitist market position and support greedy middlemen.  That leads to the new kid on the block taking the plaudits when the economy recovers, and investment in new products by new companies, which is inevitable post recession, changes the commercial landscape.

Aside from the Mesa question, there are a number of major companies who have made bad economic choices in the name of immediate cost cutting.  It may be to please shareholders and keep margins up, or to shaw up an unsustainable business model, either way it opens the market up for new and more innovative companies over the coming years, and that can only be a good thing for us musicians.

ThePrettyDamned

Not being funny, but it's mesa. People will still buy it, convinced it must be better because of the price. Not to say they ain't great! But they are overpriced in this country.

If people did stop buying them full stop, something might be done about the pricing.

guitarfishbay

ThePrettyDamned said:

Not being funny, but it's mesa. People will still buy it, convinced it must be better because of the price. Not to say they ain't great! But they are overpriced in this country.

If people did stop buying them full stop, something might be done about the pricing.

They're more expensive than I want them to be, especially the cabinets.

However there are a number of other amps that sell in the high £1k to mid £2k price bracket new and I'd argue most of them aren't worth it to the same extent a Mesa is.  

Take a Dual Rec for example - it has a distinctive and original tone you can only really get from that amp (Red/Modern/Bold/Diode).  Most of the other amps in that price category are just boutique versions of classic Fenders, Marshalls, and Voxs and don't really add anything new tonally.  To me the Mesa stuff has a distinctive voicing and also has high build quality too.

We do get shafted compared to the US pricing but ultimately the products are distinctive which still makes them valuable IMO.  

The V30 cabs do sound different to other cabs too, again their cabs are rediculous prices new in the UK but owning a Recto 2x12 and OS 4x12 and having tried the vast majority of the competition I still think they're worth owning and they do sound different to an Orange/Marshall/Blackstar v30 cab.

ICBM

I agree that on feature set, quality and tone the amps just about worth it compared to other amps that sell for less - the problem is that we know what they sell for in the US, and what other US amps which retail for the same over there do here, so it's clear that there is ripping-off going on.

The cabs are definitely much too expensive no matter how well-made they are, as are some of the custom options.

Dave_Mc

ICBM said:

Welcome to the world of UK Mesa pricing… ie a complete and utter rip-off. (Australia is as bad apparently.)

No matter how good they are, I'll never buy a new one until they stop doing this - I fully understand that US-made equipment will cost more here than it does there - there are shipping and import costs, and a profit for the distributor to factor in - but other US brands don't mark them up anywhere near as much.

Agreed.

That being said, as octatonic said, I think Australia has it even worse (I know on one of the other forums I post on there are a lot of Australians, and the prices they have to pay for gear make even most European prices look good). Obviously that doesn't justify the price either Europe or Australia has to pay compared to the USA price.

I'd also say the price affects people's perceptions a lot. On that other forum I'm talking about (and it's not the only one) there are lots of Americans, too- and they don't consider Mesa to be boutique. Good quality, sure- but more or less mass-produced (admittedly in a western country, but still). Compare that to Europe where it is considered boutique. Pretty much solely because of the prices (has to be, they're not making crappier amps for the US market).

jpfamps

MESA are really quite a small operation when compared with say Fender, so don't benefit from bulk shipping costs.

Also exporting has a lot of fixed costs.

A good example would be electrical safety approvals.

For example a typical cost for safety approvals for exporting into the States would $11,000 per model per year.

I know Australia have very stringent safety approvals, and I can't imagine them being cheap.

This cost has to be recovered from sales in that territory, and for low volume product such as a guitar amp, this can add significant cost.

I've seen some of the MESA pricing figures in the UK, and there really isn't that much of a mark up and MESA products.

jamesrt2004

guitarfishbay;76621" said:

ThePrettyDamned said:
The V30 cabs do sound different to other cabs too, again their cabs are rediculous prices new in the UK but owning a Recto 2x12 and OS 4x12 and having tried the vast majority of the competition I still think they're worth owning and they do sound different to an Orange/Marshall/Blackstar v30 cab.

They use custom v30 and c80's voiced slightly differently and made in the UK.

If you get hold of said speakers, the difference between the cabs and other similar sized (I.e the fantastic Blackstar S1 oversized cab) is negligible.


Anyway on a separate note, it happens over there too. Look at engl pricing a for us then over there, it's a similar story. Always will cost a lot to get stuff shipped either side if the sea but greedy middlemen just exploit it

Dave_Mc

Last time I checked, engls were actually cheaper in the US (or else pretty much exactly the same price). It's ages since I've checked, though, so that could well be out of date information. Admittedly Marshalls are normally dearer in the US, but not normally by anywhere near as much as Mesas are here. Plus lots of US companies do Marshall-style amps, if you think Marshalls are too dear you can get a Splawn or whatever. Not aware of any Mesa-style amps here.

monquixote

sted said:

What are Marshall prices like over there? Not trying to be clever, genuinely interested as to if UK companies exporting have the same pricing anomalies for US buyers.

More expensive than they are here, but not stupidly so. 

It's worth bearing in mind when you see so many Americans playing Mesas that over there they are quite a bit cheaper than the higher end Marshall stuff (For example a Mesa Express is cheaper than a JVM) 

guitarfishbay

jamesrt2004 said:

guitarfishbay;76621" said:

ThePrettyDamned said:
The V30 cabs do sound different to other cabs too, again their cabs are rediculous prices new in the UK but owning a Recto 2x12 and OS 4x12 and having tried the vast majority of the competition I still think they're worth owning and they do sound different to an Orange/Marshall/Blackstar v30 cab.

They use custom v30 and c80's voiced slightly differently and made in the UK.

If you get hold of said speakers, the difference between the cabs and other similar sized (I.e the fantastic Blackstar S1 oversized cab) is negligible.

The speakers definitely sound different, but I've never tried swapping myself.

I had a Blackstar S1412B (straight OS) and it was a very well made cabinet, I A/B'd with an Orange PPC412 at the time of purchase and preferred the Blackstar.  I sold it because when I bought a Mesa Roadster I couldn't get them to sound right together - there was too much fizz at high gain and it wasn't as punchy as it should have been.  Several other amps sounded fantastic through the Blackstar cab, so it was a case of the amp not liking the speaker cab.

There was a noticeable difference when switching to a Mesa 4x12 OS Rectifier cabinet.  That cab sounded much darker, had less fizz with the Roadster head and also had more punch.  With other heads I've felt I could use either the Blackstar or the Mesa cab, but the Mesa high gain definitely sounded more powerful through the Mesa cab IMO.  It was like you could hear the note more through the Mesa Cab, whereas the Blackstar cab felt a bit more fizzy at higher gain, with the Recto specifically.  I sometimes wish I'd kept both as the Laney Ironheart head I have paired slightly better with the Blackstar cab, but I needed the room as I still have three other cabs.

Besides the speakers there were two other key areas of difference with the cabs.

- The Mesa OS Straight fires completely straight.  The Blackstar cab angles upwards like a Marshall B cabinet does.  I have no idea how much difference that makes to tone though, having not swapped between the two speakers in the same cabinet.  I'd imagine however that this might make the Blackstar cab (which is already brighter tonally) a better choice for a live straight cabinet.

- Castors: Mesa are 3" and very quick to remove, Blackstar are 2" and screw in (takes a little longer) - not a deal breaker really.

A guy who posts on the Sneap forum did a side by side comparison of a regular V30 and a Mesa V30 in the same (Framus) cab, same mic position.  They are really quite different sounding speakers.  I felt my Mesa and Blackstar cabs sounded similarly different as per the differences in this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-IGBhdkk8w

I do like Mesa cabs, though I'll only buy them used and even then they're bloody expensive.  I did my own comparison of Blackstar S1412B (V30) vs Mesa Rectifier 2x12 (Mesa V30) and while different tonally the Recto was not far behind in terms of 'size' of sound and low end punch.  Again the Mesa sounds darker tonally with less fizz - The Blackstar cab has that 'shhh' sound somewhere around 5k IIRC (an easy EQ fix in fairness), the Mesa speakers don't really have that though to begin with and track much smoother IME.  

This was using a Blackstar S104EL34 and Visual Sound 808 to boost, DIs and backing from Jeff Dunne's KSE Rose Of Sharyn pack.  Mic position as close to identical as I could get it.

https://soundcloud.com/maxmoujaes/blackstar-s1-412b-vs-mesa