Which Bass Amp? ~£500 budget

Dave_Mc

Hi everyone,

I seem to have acquired that Vigier that Chappells had in its clearance sale, and I really need a bass amp to put it through.

I really have no clue about bass gear- I've played electric guitar for years, but know nothing about bass.

It's a pretty good bass guitar so I'd want something which will at least do it justice- assuming that's possible without totally breaking the bank. I'd have a budget of ~£500, but that's flexible by a couple of hundred pounds if something is a bit over budget which is far better.

I also wouldn't be averse to going a fair bit cheaper than that, assuming something at that price would do the job and wouldn't need to be upgraded inside a couple of months.

What I really don't want to end up doing (and I know from experience with guitar amps is definitely possible at this kind of budget) is buying something which is basically a glorified practice amp for an amount of money which would buy you genuinely pro level kit if you had made a more informed decision.

Versatility would be handy as I'm not really sure what type of bass tones I like best. As far as guitar goes, I play a range of stuff from vintage to modern tones, so I'm guessing I'd play a similar range of stuff on bass.

There seem to be some good prices at the moment on Genz Benz stuff (and I know their guitar stuff is quite good, but obviously that doesn't mean their bass stuff is, though I think they were a bass company first) which I'm liking the look of- the Streamliner and Shuttle 2 series along with the Focus LT cabs would be *just about* doable if they're worth the extra- and I've also come across the Hartke Hydrive combos. I suspect they're total overkill (and more compact is probably better, unfortunately ), but hey, it's never stopped me before )

But as I said, I know nothing about this and you bass players will know way better than me what I need and what's good quality and good value kit. So, basically, any recommendations, thoughts or ideas will be gratefully received. Thanks in advance for your help.

TL;DNR Summary:

Bass amp
Budget: ~£500 (but flexible by ~£200 if it's worth the extra)
Versatility would be useful.
Compact is a bonus if it doesn't adversely affect the tone too much.
If I'm spending close to the top of the budget I'd want it to be pro level (or near enough) kit; if that's not possible, I'd rather spend (a good bit) less.

Thanks!

Shark_Eyes

I was always quite taken with the Fender Rumble series, particularly the 30 Watt, which I thought sounded great for the price, and I could lift it: http://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/bass_amps_detail.asp?stock=10020612175213

They do a variety of sizes (volumes?), but I've only tried the 30 watt: http://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/Fender-Rumble

Ashdown and Trace Elliot have always had good reputations too, worth checking those out.

Paul_C

I love all things Markbass, but I was impressed with the TC Electronic BG250-115 and will probably buy one next time I have £300 or so spare - I did recently have the funds, but the missus wanted a new mattress

fretmeister

Super bargains on Genz Benz now that Fender are closing them

http://www.gak.co.uk/en/genz-benz-streamliner-stm-600/89555

with

http://www.gak.co.uk/en/genz-benz-nx2-212t/89565

or

http://www.gak.co.uk/en/genz-benz-stl-2-210t-ext/71128

A bit over your ideal price, but an amazing deal. I have a Streamliner head and it's utterly brilliant.

ICBM

If you want it for gigging, Peavey bass gear is tough, loud and sounds pretty good, and dirt cheap second hand. But it's the sort of thing you use because it's reliable and gets the job done, rather than the sort of thing you own because you love it, if you see what I mean… which is not meant as a put-down, I have quite a bit of Peavey gear including a T-Max bass combo. I have often thought about selling it - it's very heavy, and I like the sound of it rather than love it, but it's almost worth too little to be worth getting rid of and it will do any gig I need to play. You could probably pick one up for around £300.

fretmeister

Oooo!!!

Couple of deals on some Mark Bass if you're quick

http://www.yamahamusiclondon.com/?page_id=31000529

The 2x10 is one of the very best combos ever!

guitarfishbay

I think our bassist paid £250 for an Ashdown ABM EV0 2 500 watt 4x10 combo.  They are massive and quite heavy though (probably why they go so cheap second hand).

IanSavage

fretmeister said:

Oooo!!!

Couple of deals on some Mark Bass if you're quick

http://www.yamahamusiclondon.com/?page_id=31000529

The 2x10 is one of the very best combos ever!

Bloody hell, that's a couple of good deals - yeah, they count as 'pro gear' too

Dave_Mc

Thanks for all the help, guys

I'll go through the posts

@Shark_Eyes : Thanks, I'll check out those Fenders

@Paul_C : Thanks. Yeah I've come across the Markbass stuff- most of it seemed pretty dear (but those deals on Chappell that fretmeister spotted might work). Not too familiar with the TC stuff (not that I'm familiar with any of it, obviously, but I haven't come across the TC stuff at all ) ). I'll check it out.

@fretmeister  : Yep, those are the ones I've been looking at. From what little I've seen, the streamliners seem to be more vintage-voiced, while the shuttles are more modern, correct? I'm probably veering towards the streamliner, since they seem more simple to use (and also they have the lower wattage streamliner which is cheaper- the shuttle is £100 more, and then the footswitch is another £50 on top of that ))

I saw bass direct also had some of the genz benz combos in stock for around £300- any idea what they're like?

Also I checked Chappell's stock of bass amps when I bought the Vigier and didn't notice that deal on the Markbass stuff. Or maybe at that point I wasn't meaning to spend so much ) I'll definitely bear that one in mind, thanks for the heads-up.


@ICBM : Yeah I know what you mean about the Peavey stuff. ) That seemed to be the impression I was getting on other forums, too- not terribly exciting, but it just works. I'll definitely keep it in mind.


@guitarfishbay : Thanks. Yeah the weight and the size are the things. I'm aware that, much like with guitar gear, it'll probably have to be a certain size and weight to sound decent, but I'd prefer it to be smaller and lighter if at all possible.


@IanSavage  : Awesome, thanks

guitarfishbay

Dave_Mc said:

@guitarfishbay : Thanks. Yeah the weight and the size are the things. I'm aware that, much like with guitar gear, it'll probably have to be a certain size and weight to sound decent, but I'd prefer it to be smaller and lighter if at all possible.

Well so does our bassist as he's only about 9 stone himself, I'm not even sure if he's heavier than the amp . 

)

ICBM

guitarfishbay said:

Well so does our bassist as he's only about 9 stone himself, I'm not even sure if he's heavier than the amp . 

)

I weigh nine and a half stone. My Peavey combo weighs eight stone two pounds :-O . Although quite small, it's also an awkward enough shape that I can't easily pick it up because I then fall over, even though I'm actually strong enough to get it off the ground...

Dave_Mc

)

Last time I checked I was about 12.5 stone. I'm just a wuss. )

EDIT: I think I'm veering towards either the Genz Benz or Mark Bass stuff currently- they're a bit more than I'd like to pay ideally, but at the same time I'm not sure I can pass those deals and be happy with something which is (I presume) not half as good for only slightly less money.

Any thoughts? I like how the MarkBass stuff is really light, fairly compact and (I think) made in Italy, but the Genz Benz stuff is tube (the preamp, anyway) and also looks pretty great. )

By the way, how do the 10" and 15" speakers differ? Similar to guitar i.e. 10" is tighter and punchier, 15" is deeper-sounding and not quite as quick to react?

And how important are valves for bass? Much less so than for guitar, I'm guessing, but since I like valves for guitar it does make me wonder if I'd prefer them for bass too )

ThePrettyDamned

My mate is selling a 200 watt hartke head, it's rack mount.  Compressor is a bit weird, but it has a 12 band eq and sounds nice.  It'll be going cheap, if you want something loud that sounds pretty good - not inspiring, but certainly a cut above a lot of budget bass stuff.  He used it with a 4x10 cab with aluminium cones, which he would also sell.

I have to admit, I prefer the sound of a 15 inch driver for bass, it always seems to sit in the mix better.  10 inchers always sounded like something a 'lead bassist' would play - you know, slap bass players or complex metal riff types.  

Just an edit, as I play rock mostly, the bass either needs to be clean and punchy for fast riffing (any solid state can do this really) or a bit growly for bigger powerchord riffs (tube can help here, but  my old bassist used to use a light OD or fuzz pedal, like the EHX double muff). 

ICBM

Dave_Mc said:

And how important are valves for bass? Much less so than for guitar, I'm guessing, but since I like valves for guitar it does make me wonder if I'd prefer them for bass too )

Valve bass amps sound really nice, but because they also have to be much higher-powered than guitar amps the penalties of cost and weight (and cost of valves) kick in much more seriously. Although if you don't need a lot of power - modern ultra-efficient cabs are a help, since you need less power for the same volume - they're feasible. Or if you have an unlimited budget and roadies of course .

A valve in the preamp can be quite nice if you want a semi-dirty bass sound, but it's not essential - I've heard a lot of all-solid-state bass amps with a good dirty sound and at least one with a valve in the preamp that sounded *dreadful* overdrive.

ThePrettyDamned said:

I have to admit, I prefer the sound of a 15 inch driver for bass, it always seems to sit in the mix better.  10 inchers always sounded like something a 'lead bassist' would play - you know, slap bass players or complex metal riff types. 

I think it's far more dependent on the cab design than the driver diameter. The SVT cab is an 8x10" and has enough low-end for dub reggae, as well as any other style. The original Fender Rumble Bass (the 300W valve one, not the current series) came with two totally differently-voiced 4x10"s - one sounded like a normal 4x10", the other like a sub.

fretmeister

Size of a bass speaker is no longer an indication of sound or reaction speed or punch.

Unlike guitar players who cling to their V30 or Greenbacks, bassists have really embraced Neo tech.

The 15 inch drivers in TecAmp and Barefaced etc cabs react faster than just about all traditional 10 inch cones and have a greater cone movement too. So much more punch and much more air being moved.

Now more than ever - try it out and trust your ears.

ThePrettyDamned

ICBM said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

I have to admit, I prefer the sound of a 15 inch driver for bass, it always seems to sit in the mix better.  10 inchers always sounded like something a 'lead bassist' would play - you know, slap bass players or complex metal riff types. 

I think it's far more dependent on the cab design than the driver diameter. The SVT cab is an 8x10" and has enough low-end for dub reggae, as well as any other style. The original Fender Rumble Bass (the 300W valve one, not the current series) came with two totally differently-voiced 4x10"s - one sounded like a normal 4x10", the other like a sub.

You're probably right - I've only had experience with supplied-at-rehearsal stuff mostly, and it just so happened the 15 inchers were voiced more suitably! No doubting the SVT, only heard one in a shop (the old sound control in london) that was literally the best sounding thing ever.

ICBM

Cheap cabinets are rarely properly acoustically designed and are usually little more than a box of roughly the right size to hold the speaker and an amp chassis if it's a combo. If there's a 'port' it's often just a token slot along the bottom which may or may not be tuned to anything to do with the speaker - especially if it's been replaced as a lot in rehearsal studios will have been.

I took my Peavey T-Max up to the rehearsal studio for the last practice, and even though both the house amps which I normally use and mine are 1x15"s, the T-Max has a properly-designed rear port - the difference was astonishing, it was like I was playing with an extra bottom octave compared to the house amp.

Cab design matters more than most people realise for guitar, but it *really* matters for bass.

Dave_Mc

Thanks again for the help, guys.

I'll ask a general question here that I've been wondering about (fretmeister's post touched on it) and then go through your posts

I was just wondering about speaker cabs (and speakers). You know the way guitarists use about 3 different speaker types from major manufacturers, regardless of the manufacturer of the amp or cabinet? Bass doesn't seem to do that (right?). I was just wondering, if I were to go with the Genz Benz, seeing as how it's discontinued, if I ever wanted to add a second cabinet to it in the future, would I be screwed since most manufacturers seem to use their own speakers etc.?

@ThePrettyDamned : Thanks for the offer, I appreciate it, but I'd really prefer to go new (not knowing much about bass kit for one thing), plus being in Northern Ireland the postage would likely be prohibitive, anyway.

@ICBM : Thanks. I don't really need any power at all, but the only all-valve bass amps available at a half-sensible budget seem to be very low wattage indeed (even by guitar amp standards, and for the reasons you said). And if I were going to that kind of money, I'd really prefer something which I knew could be gigged with, too, I think. If that makes sense?

The Genz Benzes have valve or hybrid preamps I think (apart from the combos) and the MarkBass is solid state, as far as I'm aware. From listening to clips (I realise that's far from ideal) they both sound pretty good. )

In response to your more recent post about cab design, do you know much about Genz Benz cabs? I think they're well-regarded (for guitar anyway), and I'm guessing they're decent, but I really don't know )

@fretmeister  : Thanks Big problem is there aren't that many great stores here in NI, especially for bass.It's bad enough for guitar. Plus I can't even play bass to try the things out without looking like a tool )

And yeah neo wouldn't be a problem from the weight point of view (but as I said, the cheaper GB cabs seem to be ceramic). If most bass players don't care I'm willing to take their word for it.

ICBM

Dave_Mc said:

@ICBM : Thanks. I don't really need any power at all, but the only all-valve bass amps available at a half-sensible budget seem to be very low wattage indeed (even by guitar amp standards, and for the reasons you said). And if I were going to that kind of money, I'd really prefer something which I knew could be gigged with, too, I think. If that makes sense?

The Genz Benzes have valve or hybrid preamps I think (apart from the combos) and the MarkBass is solid state, as far as I'm aware. From listening to clips (I realise that's far from ideal) they both sound pretty good. )

In response to your more recent post about cab design, do you know much about Genz Benz cabs? I think they're well-regarded (for guitar anyway), and I'm guessing they're decent, but I really don't know )

I may be wildly wrong because I haven't tried it yet, but from the spec alone, some of the highly efficient modern lightweight cabs (eg Barefaced Audio) may make a valve bass amp even as low as 50W practical to gig with, if you don't need massive volume. If you're going through the PA as well definitely so.

(Terry de Castro of Cinerama used a Fender Bassman 70 through either a 4x10" or a 1x15" the times I saw them and it was obviously enough on stage.)

MarkBass do at least one model with a valve in the preamp, I've seen inside and it was a little subminiature avionics-type valve, the same as ZVex use in the Nano Amp and Seymour Duncan in their pedals.

I don't know anything about the Genz Benz cabs.

Dave_Mc

Thanks

I'll check out those barefaced audio cabs. EDIT: They look great but they're way over budget, the cabs alone are more than I'd ideally want to spend on the entire rig. ) Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they're awesome (and I've bookmarked them for future reference, so thanks for the heads-up ), but yeah. The stuff I'm already looking at is overkill, and those would be really overkill, I think.

I don't really need any volume ) Just I figured when I lucked into such a good deal on such a nice bass, I might as well put it through something that does it justice. Embarrassing related question- you can turn these amps down, right, like you can with guitar amps? I don't need to hit whisper volume as I don't share any walls with neighbours, but I don't want to kill myself every time I turn the amp on, either ) I normally practise at around 85-95dB or so, so somewhere around there in terms of volume.

I've come across the MarkBass Little Mark Tube heads... they're pushing it in terms of price, really, though I suppose it might be just about doable if it were worth the extra (either over the SS MarkBass combos which are on offer or the tube Genz Benzes, which are a fair bit less).

No worries about the Genz Benz cabs.

I reckon (could be wrong) I'll struggle to beat either the MarkBass combos or Genz Benz stuff which is on offer- at least without spending a lot more money )

Thanks again for your help.

ThePrettyDamned

If you just want a practice home amp, Peavey do a really great sounding 15 watter. Nope, it doesn't come close to drums, but it'll do bedroom up to too loud for the house easily enough, and let you spend time playing while you work out which proper one to get

Edit:this could be a right giggle. Might or might not be utter shite, but it'll make you grin with volume. http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=111211291005