Rough gigs

meltedbuzzbox

as an outside observer you need to shit or get off the pot and from what I gather you have been sat in the stench of shit for a while so getting off the pot is the only option. 

but its your choice etc ;-)

thomasross20

Wow, thanks for your support, guys!

I'm not sure whether to just leave and state that there are differences, or declare the points... which are listed below. A shame if it goes t!ts up as I genuinely like the people and the band - it's just the issues. Let me know if it's me being the diva here!

- I mentioned I'd like to gig as much as possible and in places like Glasgow where the scene is more vibrant, but bassist & main singer didn't sound so keen. I don't want to play the "Dog and Duck" forever so there's an ambition mismatch there.

- The song sheets need to go - those not using them are doing more work having to remember all our parts. The last two points indicate I'd like to take it to a more professional level but I think they're happy where they are.

- I would never dream of telling them my girlfriend will do sound and breaks at gigs, and get a cut for doing sound if she's not a proper engineer. It's not on and when I said I wasn't so sure about this the bassist just said "we need all the help we can get" so I got ridden over. 

- There are already 6 people in the band. His girlfriend takes it to seven. Too bloated and we'll never make any money - this is the drummer's main argument (that, and that he wants to take it to another level). 

- Bassist ignored previous e-mail and put us on the spot at 2am to put money toward the PA that night. It's the principle not the money - was the a hire fee? For how long? I told the rhythm guitarist who bought it that I don't consider the PA as partly mine. Handled badly and again ignored my email. When confronted he said "we were all put on the spot" - I asked him who put us on the spot and got no reply - it was him!! It's not that he's a bad guy, I think he doesn't think!

- I told bassist I'd spent next to £8k on gear for the band - will I get compensated akin to PA person? Answer was just that I'd make it up in no time with album sales... what sort of reply is that? 

- Lack of gigs, especially given we wont be doing the last (rough) one again and our main venue has shut. We're doing a demo this weekend but I've had people say they wouldn't see us again until vox were improved - they're not bad but I think the song sheets detract. Main singer also doesn't want to do any moves of any sort which I think is an issue for the drummer - he wants to see a show, as such.

- When I learn a song it's gig-ready for next practice but that's not the case for all.

- The bassist has 3 jobs and sees his girlfriend on the weekend. That's all great but he's lost touch.... last few times we've rented a practice hall (to test PA) ghe's had to leave early to do something with his girlfriend... he had to miss practice this Wednesday... he's known for three months about a weekend studio session and told us he could only make half of one of those days and had the gall to say he didn't need a lecture and that other people missed practice sessions...! Totally different as this is a recording session. He's been forgetting parts and not practising enough. FYI I'm the youngest person in the band so these people aren't immature kids. 

- When I initially kicked up a fuss and thought about leaving the main singer was the only one not to send an email and was ok to let me leave, I heard. After this kerfuffle with the bassist, she's been sticking up for him big-time. So I see where the loyalties lie. They work together now (she's his boss) so it's all a bit too incestuous. 

- Main singer is also friends with bassist's girlfriend. They listen too much to her and the home audience regarding "gig reviews" and 2hat songs to do etc. There's more than one audience and another example of when friends/family should stay out of band matters. 

I'm sure there's more but those are my main points. 

meltedbuzzbox

im not hearing a case for staying personally.

thomasross20

Cases for staying:

- Got ~3 hours of songs with them and when we sound good, I reckon it's pretty good. 

- Good bunch of people.

- A lot of time invested (> 1 year now).

- To be fair, bassist has got us gigs. 

- If something else was to fail, I'd have no band and I do like playing with others weekly - it sharpens up your playing.

Err, will try to think of more!

John_P

I probably sound like a broken record saying leave but I can't see why you would think about staying - unless it's just while you are sorting a new band.
People like that don't change.

Imo you need a smaller band with at least one of two members who have done a zillion gigs and know how to get it done so things like the pa and booking and looking professional are sorted.

thomasross20

That's the plan with this new singer

Just for my own notes (as I might being these points up):

- I said I'd do a website but they thought Facebook was enough and didn't want to pay domain fee

- singer not keen on photos for site, despite me having a great camera now


Do you think I'd best leave amicably without mentioning these, or bring them up anyway?

meltedbuzzbox

everyone has pretty much advised you to ditch the band over 4 pages of this thread...

you need to make a decision and stick with it. 

EricTheWeary

Bit of an aside but I'd agree with them on the website, for a local covers band Facebook, Twitter, etc, is probably enough. A website costs, takes more setting up and quickly looks sad if it's not maintained. It's not likely to bring in any more business and at the local pub circuit level having a website is basically a vanity project. The social media sites also allow for some interaction with your fans. YMMV, IMHO, etc. :bz

Cabicular

There are a ton of bands and a ton of musicians in Edinburgh Why put up with that 

If you want to continue to pootle around the second division then stay where you are If you want to move to the premier league it's more attitude than ability. 

You sound like you have both 

When I joined LSI they were a bit of a basket cas. The 2nd division guitarist and singer was running it, they had no focus so the set was eclectic..to say the least.

The gigs were not in great venues and a real struggle to get. 

The rehearsals were tense, the live vibe was tenser. The equipment was terrible  ...but the other female singer had something.

Great voice great look and great mover on stage 

I'd worked with the bass player for years and he's a total pro. 

The drummer was ok but prone to stage fright and quite slow to learn things 

I came in as a Rhythm guitarist and immediately the incumbent started to bristle. It all came to a head one night where he had a massive strop and the rest of the band stood behind me. 

He was an average guitarist but not a great singer yet he insisted in singing half the set. It was madness He left and I put the female singer in front permanently and told her she was the main draw from now on. I brought in my singer from the chillis on second guitar and backing vocals and refocused the set 

Threw away all the indie stuff and focuses on 80s 90s Rock. ACDC, Van Halen, Zeppelin Rainbow etc 

Things immediately got better. We had two strong guitar players and three strong vocalists with a clear front person We had a few goes at various looks and images and settled with kin of modern rock type look. The drummer started to struggle with the change in pace so he left. 

I went through a few drummers until I brought in my old drummer from the 90s out of retirement . He's a monster player. I did a Zeppelin tribute band with him to give you an idea. He's amazing and a total showman. 

I've added a new line 6 pa and a full Dmx controlled light show. Next stage is to get someone to run it. 

We make decent money for a pub band. Not wedding band money but that's a different game and not one I want to get into again TBH

The point of all this is that to get anywhere, you need clear goals, focus, don't be afraid to swap around till you get it right. 

An ear and an eye for what works and what doesn't. And the respect and support of your peers 

At the end of the day you either run a band or you are in a band. I prefer to be in a band but mostly end up running them. Not because I want to ... because someone has to. Hope this gives you some ideas....

Cabicular

iPad ! Why don't you respect Paragraphs! I'll sort it up when I get to a pc

Moe_Zambeek

@cabicular is correct, entirely.

Focus, dedication, determination. Be ruthless. Have a USP. Define a plan and execute it don't waste time on things that bring you no benefit.


Easier said than done but no one said it was easy...being in an average covers band *is* easy, thats why there are so many average covers bands playing Brown eyed girl and Sweet Home Alabama and Sex on Fire and pretending they don't need to rehearse to get tight. These are the ones you see in a pub with everyone staring at the floor or their guitar neck (apart from the singer, who'll be hiding behind a lyric book on a music stand), ignoring the audience and taking 5 minutes to decide which song to play next.

I've been in both scenarios and more and I know which I prefer...

ElectroDan

If you don't want to burn bridges and stay friends, I'd leave and not go into the reasons (that's bound to start a whole heated debate). Just say you are leaving to pursue your own thing and wish them all well.

It clear that you want to progress and be part of a professional outfit. That is fine and needn't take a long time to get into. there are millions of guitar players around but good ones with the right attitude and gear are a bit thinner on the ground.

From your previous posts it seems clear that the drummer is coming with you. You also mentioned that a singer was potentially available. If you get together have a chat about why you were not happy before and lay out your vision of what you want the band to be like, there is no reason why you cannot inspire them to follow you.

Find a bassist, agree a set list, set manageable goals, all agree to learn fast and properly and get out into the pubs.

Paul_C

Roland

meltedbuzzbox said:

everyone has pretty much advised you to ditch the band over 4 pages of this thread...

you need to make a decision and stick with it. 

@thomasross20.  This discussion isn't about whether to do it, but how.  If this was your day job then you would:

1. Decide what the new job would be, and get some level commitment from those involved.

2. Give notice on your current job, say three months, and support them through the notice period, which will give you time to get the new band together.

3.  Focus your attention on the new role.

thomasross20

Well today we had our studio session - to be concluded tomorrow... 

TBH it went pretty well! The drums mic'd up properly sounded really amazing - I got rhythm down in two takes for an ACDC song thought did take about 9 solos to get that perfect one. Managed to get the bass and drums done for two songs, rhythm and lead guitar done for one song. Tomorrow will be guitars for song two and vox for both songs. 

Drummer and I agreed not to be too drastic, keep this going and also keep going with this second project - progress with both and see where we're at by the end of the year. Have read all replies - and appreciated (!) - will see how things progress over time.... glad I never had an outburst, to be honest... and if I do leave, I wont be having an outburst... Best not to do that!

thomasross20

New singer replied to me - think she's happy to go ahead with me but not the drummer (erratic drumming, as she said). Waiting to hear back if she knows anybody. 

Studio session with the band was GREAT. Luckily I got most my parts down in a few takes but the others took a little work. I was on a real high then the following practice, the main singer (who actually did really well at the studio sesh, even if she was looking at lyrics) was absent so we were left with the backing singer. It sounded like school band, unfortunately. Some wrong bass notes, rhythm guitar sounded funny (she plays a mini acoustic into an FX modeller to get a distorted sound), drums were on and off (though good at the start) and backing vox were weak. Even I made a few mistakes, likely due to my heart sinking lol. I walked out thinking.... what a plonker I am spending all this money on all this gear... think of all the time I spend playing guitar, I could be finding ways of starting my own business etc. Labour of love...

Just wish I could find other decent members in the vicinity.

Panama_Jack666

Not related to your problem Tommy...

But at a gig last night, there was this polite notice in the backstage room they'd given us.

Not necessarily a rough gig... but I do wonder how many people had pissed in the room before we arrived. I would guess enough worthy of making a sign and then framing it!

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a555/Panama_Jack666/Mobile Uploads/20151017_214022_zpsgrgghybk.jpg

Panama_Jack666

Also, I wonder what 'dealt with' actually means?

thomasross20

koneguitarist

I remember my last session with the old band, booked studio for the Saturday morning till early afternoon.

Friday night bassist said he couldn't make it so we will have to cancel losing our money, I said no we will do it without you. (Band was on last legs and finishing anyway) and I will play bass. 

Turned up next morning to find Drummer was not there and was still at home, 40mins away, told him to get his ass in there asap. 

He turned up and the songs we were doing were original, one slightly jazzy country number really needed a subtle brush type drumming, we did not get that at all, he was in such a mood and just bang crashed all over the song. 

After he left, engineer said listen to this and he played song without any drums, which improved song no end, so we wiped them. 

Songs eventually came out as well as could be but both drummer and bassist were let go, and me and singer replaced them with far better musicians and more importantly nicer guys.

Bands do not earn enough money playing pub gigs generally, so it has to be enjoyable and fun, I have played in bands which were not that great but had loads of fun and enjoyment, I have also played in bands which were very good musicians and tight as hell with good money, but were arse holes. Work out what you have and want to do, no one can tell you.