Anyone ever tried a 1961 EL84 Bias-trem Tremolux 6G9 ?

ToneControlToneControl Frets: 11790

Has anyone seen or tried an original or clone of these?

http://vintageamps.com/plexiboard/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=105784

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fender_Tremolux

I'm curious as to what EL84 characteristics a Blonde Fender would accentuate - running as a fixed-bias pair at 30W, are they just rare or are they amazing, etc.

I have the 6G9-A or 6G9-B - same design but with 6L6s, it is definitely amazing

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Comments

  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    I think it's highly unlikely that you can get 30W from a pair of EL84s even in fixed bias. Mesa claimed that as well with the F-30, and it wasn't, even given that they were run at much higher voltages than EL84s normally are. (I measured 22W.)

    It's possible that Fender tried and had reliability problems, which you would certainly get. Or just that it didn't sound all that good. A company like Fender did not set out to make a 'rare' amp, so if they didn't make many there will be a good reason for that.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • jpfampsjpfamps Frets: 2723
    I've never seen one of these either.

    Peavey get 50W out of 4 EL84s in fixed bias, so 25W is possible.

    I expect you could get 30W, but this would require running the valve even more out of spec than they normally are, or maybe in Class B.

    You would need to increase both the HT and the loading.

    Most 2 x EL84 amps simply employ the "correct" 8k loading.

    Up to the CBS take over, Fender brought out new amp models every year, and I expect this was an experiment with some different output valves. Either there was a reliability problem, or the amp wasn't favourably received (Leo Fender was always keen to get feedback from working musicians).

    Although 6L6s and 6V6s are associated with Fender amps, they did occasionally try some other output valves as in the afformentioned Vibrolux. I've also seen a Blonde Showman head with 7355 output valves.
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  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 11790

    I understand that 30w sounds unlikely, I don't know what surviving examples put out, I just wondered what it might sound like - is this simply rare because it was flaky and/or sounded mediocre, as suggested, and expensive because folk who like to buy rare things pushed the price up, or is this an interesting sounding design? For all I know Leo ran out of EL84s, I understand a lot of decisions were as pragmatic as that back in those days.

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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    People who like to buy rare things will push the price up even if the thing is flaky and mediocre.

    No way Leo would have 'run out' of EL84s. There must have been something wrong with the design - the question is what, and whether something that was wrong in 1961 might actually be desirable today, if it was to do with the sound rather than the reliability... bearing in mind that the goal back then was generally maximum power, clean headroom and frequency response - almost the opposite of what it is today.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 11790
    ICBM said:
    People who like to buy rare things will push the price up even if the thing is flaky and mediocre.

    No way Leo would have 'run out' of EL84s. There must have been something wrong with the design - the question is what, and whether something that was wrong in 1961 might actually be desirable today, if it was to do with the sound rather than the reliability... bearing in mind that the goal back then was generally maximum power, clean headroom and frequency response - almost the opposite of what it is today.

    Sounds like a fair conclusion

    Heard of anyone trying using this kind of design? I couldn't find any "reviews" of it. This is just today's curiosity after playing my 6L6 one, it's not a specific quest I've been thinking of before

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  • Listen to a Peavey classic 50 for an idea of what fixed bias el84s can sound like. Obviously the preamp is different in design (2 channel) but the clean channel is fairly fender voiced imo (it sounds like a Peavey, but still fendery).

    I love the classic 50, fwiw, so if you want to try a fixed bias el84, I'd start their, they're relatively affordable, reliable as far I know, and sound brilliant (saw satch use one live with his distortion pedal and it sounded th balls clean, crunch, dist...).
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    edited November 2013
    The power valves really don't make that much difference.

    Examples of fixed-bias EL84 amps, other than the Classic 50 (and Classic 30):

    Fender Pro Junior & Blues Junior
    Mesa Studio 22, DC-2 & 3, F-30
    Soldano Astroverb, Jet City JCA22
    Marshall DSL201 & 401

    For example the Mesa DC-2 sounds far more like a Mesa DC-5 (6L6) than it does like a Blues Junior or a DSL.

    It is possible that they overloaded in some unmusical sort of way in the Tremolux, but I'd think it more likely that the problem is to do with reliability.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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