Mesa Mini Rectoverb

leerocker

rockmonster said:

A mate of mine has a mini rec and loves it. I've been using a 100 EVH III for a couple of years now. I rate them over several booteek amps. It's nice to see some of you guys finally catching on to them! =D>

You have me to thank for that lol! 

Great amps and they do almost anything ,i get the urge for other amps buy them and try them gig them and sell them, nothing beats the evh line for gigging full stop!

looking forward to the new one coming out. 

On the other hand i bought the mini and had it for a few gigs and it did sound great for such a small amp.

grungebob

£1400 for the combo and £1239 for the head. Seems far too much money to me.

Drew_TNBD

Lol @ mesa

ICBM

guitarfishbay said:

Plus there is a rack option.

Dear god that is ugly. You think they could at least have *tried* not to make it look like a combo chassis crudely bolted into an ill-fitting sheet steel box.

Particularly as it takes up one more rack space than a Rectifier Pre and a 20/20 power amp, and the same as the full 100W 'Racktifier' they used to do in the 90s...

guitargeek62

Well given that the Fuchs amps I also had my eye on seem to have dropped in price on Thomann, that makes it less likely that I'd go for one now.

I'd only heard good things about the mini so far though so you've all surprised me to say the least! I'll still wait till I can try one out though at least

guitarfishbay

Is there a market for 100 watt rack amps anymore? Laney seem to be doing pretty well with the 15 watt Ironheart rack, very different price bracket though. You can always slave to a bigger poweramp (at extra cost, size, and weight).

ICBM

Not sure - I would have thought there was more of a market for 100W rack amps than small ones, given that most people who are still using racks are touring rock stars.

rockmonster

leerocker said:

rockmonster said:

A mate of mine has a mini rec and loves it. I've been using a 100 EVH III for a couple of years now. I rate them over several booteek amps. It's nice to see some of you guys finally catching on to them! =D>

You have me to thank for that lol! Absolutely it's all down to you mate!

guitarfishbay

ICBM;80866" said:

Not sure - I would have thought there was more of a market for 100W rack amps than small ones, given that most people who are still using racks are touring rock stars.

As far as I can tell many of the rack users seem  to be going the Kemper/Axe/Pod route, at least in the genres I'm aware of (rock side of things).  I think that option is killing off a lot of high end high wattage valve rigs for touring musicians and I'm not surprised tbh given the weight and size advantages, better reliability, and possibility for quieter stage volumes.  

I'm beginning to think that in time only enthusiasts, old schoolers, and studio owners will be buying big expensive valve rigs, besides the musicians endorsed by companies to play amp setups live.  The low wattage stuff will still sell to people who want something small and 'better for cranking at home' though.  I think it is a shame on several counts, but ultimately the music matters more than the gear and the gear is just a set of tools (did I just type that?).  I still like the 'old' tools the best for personal enjoyment though!

Anyway speaking of smaller more modern tools someone needs to do something about drum kits.  They're bigger to move and more annoying to listen to than valve amps are. Everyone else seems to be getting the short end of the stick but you never see anyone telling drummers they need to use an electric kit live to keep stage volume down.  I've yet to meet a drummer who actually likes electric kits though, which probably answers why!  )

ICBM

You're right though - progress needs to be made to reduce the volume of drum kits without compromising on tone and feel. Drummers probably feel the same way about it as guitarists who 'need' to crank their amps! The drummer in my old band tried an electric kit - didn't like it. She preferred her 'Flats' practice kit for lower volumes, even though in some ways the 'quality' was far lower. The equivalent is a guitarist who wants the sound of a cranked stack hating the feel of a modeller but compromising with a valve practice amp… which is where we mostly are .

guitarfishbay

I don't think there is a way of making quieter acoustic drums that sound good precisely as they're acoustic instruments. I've never heard a 'small' acoustic instrument sound the same as a 'large' one - a simple example being pianos and a more relevant one being acoustic guitars.

I think the issue is that with guitars we're still in direct contact with the same instrument, and digital pianos can be created with 'realistic' weighted key actions and the keys are still the exact same size.  The problem is that electric drum pads and cymbals feel nothing like a real kit, and unless you hook them up to a PC and use something like BFD or Superior Drummer the sounds I've heard from them aren't great either.

Our drummer sold his top of the range Yamaha electric kit as he didn't think it would ever work for him outside of his own home, and he plays daily on acoustic kits anyway through being a drum teacher and gigging in a couple of bands.  I've said it a few times on here but his acoustic kit is hellishly loud and is designed to be so.  It is a Yamaha custom shop kit and the same spec as the Machine Head drummer is/was using, so voiced for power, projection and cut. The kick and snare are ridiculously loud.  He's also a drum tone nerd and keeps it well tuned with fresh skins.  He is banned from playing it at rehearsal unless we've all got our earplugs in.  Anyway the funny side story with that kit is he sold his BMW to buy a pickup truck, a Ford F150 lightning.  I told him to take his kick drum with him to check it fits in the boot and he took a tape measure instead.  You can tell he's a real drummer because he used the measurement of the skin, which would fit, not the measurement of the drum which doesn't when you include the shell and lugs.  Anyway long story short that kick drum has to ride on the passenger seat and we give him shit about it every single time.

Drew_TNBD

In the same way that a modeller is different to a real valve amp, e-drums are different to a real kit. BFD2 has been absolutely indispensable over the years for me AND our drummer - he has an ekit, and he set it up at my flat; tiny 2-bedroom thing in North London. We wrote the bulk of our album Exegesis in my bedroom-cum-studio room with BFD2, an e-kit, and a bunch of amp sims. Then we took it into the practice room to knock out the chinks and refine the shit out of our tones.

What you hear on the album is 100% acoustic. On our album 'Collapse' I used BFD2 layered with the original acoustic recordings, and no-one ever complained! I'd wager that 99.9% of drum tones you hear on a record these days are so thoroughly unnatural that they might as well be samples anyway! They often are 100% samples, especially in rock and metal!!

And I'm not just defending my job I legitimately think electronic drumkits and acoustic drum software has a large part to play in the writing of music. I couldn't imagine writing music only in a practice room like back in the 80's.*


*rockstars with home studio setups, neve desks in their boudoir's and acoustic kits stapled to the walls, notwithstanding

ICBM

guitarfishbay said:

I don't think there is a way of making quieter acoustic drums that sound good precisely as they're acoustic instruments. I've never heard a 'small' acoustic instrument sound the same as a 'large' one

I feel exactly the same about guitar amps.

But serious progress has been made. So I wonder whether it's really physically impossible with drums, or whether we're just at a relatively early point on the development curve - until recently the goal seemed to be to make drums as loud as possible, as it was with guitar amps up to about twenty years ago.

Drew_TNBD

Zildjian tried to do some stuff with their Gen16 project; don't know how successful it was really though.

guitarfishbay

Drew_fx said:

In the same way that a modeller is different to a real valve amp, e-drums are different to a real kit. BFD2 has been absolutely indispensable over the years for me AND our drummer - he has an ekit, and he set it up at my flat; tiny 2-bedroom thing in North London. We wrote the bulk of our album Exegesis in my bedroom-cum-studio room with BFD2, an e-kit, and a bunch of amp sims. Then we took it into the practice room to knock out the chinks and refine the shit out of our tones.

What you hear on the album is 100% acoustic. On our album 'Collapse' I used BFD2 layered with the original acoustic recordings, and no-one ever complained! I'd wager that 99.9% of drum tones you hear on a record these days are so thoroughly unnatural that they might as well be samples anyway! They often are 100% samples, especially in rock and metal!!

And I'm not just defending my job I legitimately think electronic drumkits and acoustic drum software has a large part to play in the writing of music. I couldn't imagine writing music only in a practice room like back in the 80's.*


*rockstars with home studio setups, neve desks in their boudoir's and acoustic kits stapled to the walls, notwithstanding

Depends on your workflow.  We don't write in the practice room, the practice room is for practicing playing as a band.

We write at low volume at our homes. We use acoustic guitars, singer sings, and the drummer brings some egg shakers and a tambourine and beat boxes the rest of the beat.  Works well for us but I don't think it'd work for your band as you have a more expansive sound, we're pretty straight forward modern hard rock.

Re: Drum samples and recording, our drummer's current preference is to record on the real shells, and then sample augment/replace later as necessary.  So he creates more work but he doesn't think he'd give as good a performance on an electric kit.  The biggest issue with getting good acoustic drum recordings is finding a nice space to do it in, and enough time to do it.  Quickly throwing up mics in OK/crap rooms and augmenting/replacing later is one cheap way to something listenable, though nobody's first choice.

ICBM said:

guitarfishbay said:

I don't think there is a way of making quieter acoustic drums that sound good precisely as they're acoustic instruments. I've never heard a 'small' acoustic instrument sound the same as a 'large' one

I feel exactly the same about guitar amps.

But serious progress has been made. So I wonder whether it's really physically impossible with drums, or whether we're just at a relatively early point on the development curve - until recently the goal seemed to be to make drums as loud as possible, as it was with guitar amps up to about twenty years ago.

I'm not sure if the amp analogy works for drum kits though.

We're still playing the exact same guitars as before, so our instrument feels the same at the source level.  I know the amp is part of the instrument in terms of the end result (and massively so), but it isn't the bit you play with your hands.  Electric guitars have never been loud acoustically to begin with.

I honestly don't think you could make an acoustic drumkit that is significantly quieter but sounds the same as a big one if we're talking about acoustics.  I can't think of any examples where the tonality has been maintained in an acoustic instrument but the volume greatly reduced.  So if you could make something that felt good at low volume I think it would need to be electric rather than rely on mics as usual.

Drew_fx said:

Zildjian tried to do some stuff with their Gen16 project; don't know how successful it was really though.

I wasn't aware of this, but checked out this video and I swear that 'china' is triggering itself at 1:52-1:54, he's not hitting it and the same tone is coming through.

Fortheloveofguitar

rockmonster said:

A mate of mine has a mini rec and loves it. I've been using a 100 EVH III for a couple of years now. I rate them over several booteek amps. It's nice to see some of you guys finally catching on to them! =D>

Hey Rod!

Thought it would be best to ask you and Leerocker about the EVH iii amp. I'm looking at the 50 watt version budget wise and i'm looking for a good all round amp.

I know it can cut it with all my drop tuning songs without being fizzy etc  but can it do blues like tones well?

I used to use a Cornford MK50 and Carvin legacy for my lead tones ( bluesy and heavy) but those amps were too loose on the bottom end for the heavy rhythm stuff so i need something that's good all round as the budget wont allow me to own 2 amps at the moment. I know you did have or may still have a MK50 as well as the EVH so you're a good guy to ask!

Many thanks 

rockmonster

Hey Ftlg, I used a Mk50 for ages when they first came out. I liked them then. But the only good one I ever had was that first one. I had 5 or 6 after than but none were ever the same-I even had serial No: #0001 I didn't like that either! For me they are too brittle and one dimensional -plenty of power good boost but still brittle sounding. Since then I've tried a lot of amps, boogie, orange, Marshall, bogner, even Cameron! Nothing stays with the EVH for what I need it to do. Don't forget it's always a personal thing with amps, how they feel to me makes a big difference to how I play them (I picked up my first guitar 40 years ago!) so I have some experience of this! ((It doesn't mean I'm any good-I've just been doing it a very long time! Lol!)) In a live gig the EVH 100 is absolutely awesome IMHO. I have yet to gig the 50-I hate the EVH 2x12 but the 4x12 with either amp is superb. The 50 has more gain and if you need some clean you will need to boost the green channel to solve (to some degree) the vol difference. I play classic rock and find the 100 does it in spade loads but it's a very versatile amp- it cleans up on the vol pot well- you do not need ANY drive pedals and the foot switchable loop is one of the best around-bogner being one of the worst and the clean channel is pretty good for what I need-and it is made by fender. The 50 has more gain on the blue channel than the 100 but it cleans up well so lowering the vol pot on the guitar can let you play the more mellow blues crank up the vol pot for lead stuff and kick in the red channel for the really screaming solos-great stuff! At the end of the day I like em as you may have noticed. Live they are VERY VERY hard to beat (for me) as with my band they sit in the mix so well and cut through with ease. You need to try them for yourself though as you may hate em! Incidentally the 100 loves anything with a suhr Aldrich pickups in it and the 50 less so as it's already got more gain. Hope this helps mate! If you're anywhere near Newbury on Friday night pop in to the dolphin and hear one played in anger!

Fortheloveofguitar

Thanks for all the info Rod!

I know what you mean about the MK50 having been through 3 different models myself. I thought the Mk2 was even worse.

I would love to try  the 100watt model but funds don't allow like they used to, so the 50watt is what i will look for to try out.

Just need a tight bottom end for rhythm work and a smooth lead tone that cleans up nicely on the volume pot for blues like tones and it sounds like this could do the job, hell i'm not even a big fan of EVH. As for the volume shift between channels i may look at the mod that I've read about and see if thats an option.

I've tried a few other brands and they've not cut it so when i saw you raving about it i thought it was worth having a look.

Thanks again, will let you know how i get on!

ThePrettyDamned

My mate used to hate electric drums. But he warmed to them when he started touring. He was in a rock band, so drums are very important but he found that his yamaha one (older, but not ancient - it's since been superceded a couple of times) is touch sensitive and sounds great.

He said, to play then right and get a good feel for them, you have to relearn them as a different instrument. He likened it to me moving on to bass, or an 8 string guitar. Same principles but a very different way of playing.

rockmonster

Lee has a 50 for sale on here it's not a stupid price and he's a top bloke.