ii v i

Frankieabbot

It sounds really good. Anyone else tried it?

octatonic

Now try a parallel modulation.

Dm7 G7 Cmaj7 Cm7 F7 Bbmaj7 (C maj7 to Cm7 is the parallel modulation).

Frankieabbot

It doesnt look like ii v i. Are you a bit of a jazz expert?

octatonic

It is two ii V I's separated by a parallel modulation.

Dm7, G7 Cmaj7 is a ii V I

Cm7, F7, Bbmaj7 is another ii V I.

I wouldn't say expert.

Frankieabbot

Parallel modulation? Think you should be on the Doctor Who thread.

Rocker

What type of songs would you use those Major 7th chords @octatonic

viz

octatonic said:

Now try a parallel modulation.

Dm7 G7 Cmaj7 Cm7 F7 Bbmaj7 (C maj7 to Cm7 is the parallel modulation).

Vizdom awarded, Octa. Those are great. You can do them for ever, each time modulating from the I of the previous ii V I to the ii of the new ii V I, just be going from major to minor. Where's @Barney 's thread where he noodles over the cycle of 12 ii V Is?

octatonic

Rocker said:

What type of songs would you use those Major 7th chords @octatonic

It is useful in potentially anything- but the approach you take has to suit the song.

In jazz you probably fill out the Maj7 more than you would in a rock/pop song- the dom7 chord is key, well really the turnaround.

Ultimately it is just an approach- how you choose to utilise it is up to you.

Look into chord fragments- you can play these chop progressions only using diads (two notes at once).

@viz- cheers- yes I tend to apply fragments of ii V I's, for example if I have a dominant blues:

A7 D7 E7 each of those 7th chords are the V in their own ii V I.

Any minor 7th chord could be treated as the ii of a ii V I.

When I say 'treat' I'm not just talking about playing them as chords- I'm more talking about an approach to soloing (in jazz and in rock) and jazz comping.

This is just one tool in the toolbox though- I wouldn't want to do it all the time- it would get samey.

viz

yep, when moving from the A7 to the D7 in blues, you can always insert a little 251 just before the move to D7, by playing Em, A7, then the D7 (or more jazzy, an Em9, A7b6, D9)

Barney

viz;876196" said:

octatonic said:

Now try a parallel modulation.



Dm7 G7 Cmaj7 Cm7 F7 Bbmaj7 (C maj7 to Cm7 is the parallel modulation).







Vizdom awarded, Octa. Those are great. You can do them for ever, each time modulating from the I of the previous ii V I to the ii of the new ii V I, just be going from major to minor. Where's @Barney 's thread where he noodles over the cycle of 12 ii V Is?

its here...

octatonic

NICE!

viz

That's the fella.

GuyBoden

octatonic said:

A7 D7 E7 each of those 7th chords are the V in their own ii V I.

Any minor 7th chord could be treated as the ii of a ii V I.

When I say 'treat' I'm not just talking about playing them as chords- I'm more talking about an approach to soloing

Nice, yes, each chord having it's own harmonic universe. 

"Any minor 7th chord could be treated as the ii of a ii V I."
Also, any minor chord can be heard as being the tonic of it's own Harmonic universe.

You can even think/hear Dom7th chords as being tonics of their own Harmonic Universes.

In fact, if you get away from the imposing nature that's been subjected on us musicians by Major and minor harmony, I think that any chord can be heard as being the centre of it's own harmonic universe. This is true Modal thinking/hearing.

Clarky

another nice II V I is to place chord II in 1st inverion

the outcome is that you'll have II V I with the chords, and IV V I with the bass notes..