Bent tailpiece posts les Paul

thomasw88

Gave my tokai lc85 it's quarterly string change today... Noticed that the talepiece posts have bent inwards quite a bit, which presumably isn't a design feature.. I have never used the screw in the body method before so was thinking that maybe it was something to do with the tension over time pulling the posts? Or is it something that I need to worry about? http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac351/thomasw88/20131119_211413_zps09c830b5.jpg http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac351/thomasw88/20131119_211928_zps6810830a.jpg

ThePrettyDamned

Wow, that's genuinely odd, something I've not heard of! (sorry, not helpful).

Is your intonation screwed?

ICBM

Never seen that before!

Poor quality posts I think.

Were you top-wrapping the strings over the tailpiece? That may put more stress on them.

If they won't straighten, I would replace them. If they'll straighten enough to get them screwed down tight to the body - and not have the strings top-wrapped - I would set it up like that. With them tight down there will be less bending force on them.

octatonic

ICBM said:

Never seen that before!

Poor quality posts I think.

Were you top-wrapping the strings over the tailpiece? That may put more stress on them.

If they won't straighten, I would replace them. If they'll straighten enough to get them screwed down tight to the body - and not have the strings top-wrapped - I would set it up like that. With them tight down there will be less bending force on them.

I HAVE seen it and you are right.

I had a poorly made (maybe chinese) Epiphone LP back in the 1990's and it had exactly the same problem.

Replace the posts.

thomasw88

It's a jap tokai so the posts are gotoh, so shouldn't be too bad quality. But is a tad annoying. Cheers fellas. I'll hunt down some more posts..

octatonic

What string gauge do you favour?

thomasw88

10-46. Pourquoi?

octatonic

In case you were using 13's or something really high tensioned.

bertie

ThePrettyDamned said:

Is your intonation screwed?

tailpiece wont affect that as it doesnt alter the "effective" string length  -  would do in a PRS stylee single wrap over tho

thomasw88

some replacement posts order courtesy of axesrus who as usual was very helpful.

he did mention that this does happen and that posts are generally made of softish metal, so this kinda thing is a bit more common than you think.

Once I get the posts in, I'll get the guitar setup as I don't think I've ever actually ever had anyone do any work on it the 4 years I've owned it.   does mean that my blade tele will be getting an airing this weekend instead of the tokai, but thats no bad thing anyways..

going to try the wrap over the tailpiece method as well as never done that before.

so cheers everyone, hopefully this'll sort it out. 

ICBM

thomasw88 said:

he did mention that this does happen and that posts are generally made of softish metal, so this kinda thing is a bit more common than you think.

Really? As far as I can remember I have literally never seen it happen like that in more than 25 years of professional repair work and many hundred Gibson-style guitar setups. These posts must be incredibly crap! If they're strong enough to take the full force when the stopbar is used a bridge and is further off the body, they should certainly be strong enough when it's just a tailpiece.

I would avoid top-wrapping if the new posts are the same type, it will definitely increase the twisting force on them.

octatonic

ICBM said:

I would avoid top-wrapping if the new posts are the same type, it will definitely increase the twisting force on them.

Will be interesting to see if if the bent posts caused any damage to the bushing threads too.

ICBM

octatonic said:

Will be interesting to see if if the bent posts caused any damage to the bushing threads too.

Unlikely - I'd guess they bent just above where they were supported by the bushings.

I wonder if this also has to do with setting the tailpiece too high? I always put it at the lowest height at which the strings don't press on the back of the bridge (preferably tight down, but that isn't always possible if the neck angle is too steep so the bridge has to be up high). Although it should be fine since they're at least that high when you use them with a stopbar bridge.

It is very odd - they should be steel or brass, both of which are strong enough not to bend like that… I doubt these can be. This doesn't fill me with any great confidence about the quality of the hardware in general.

octatonic

ICBM said:

octatonic said:

Will be interesting to see if if the bent posts caused any damage to the bushing threads too.

Unlikely - I'd guess they bent just above where they were supported by the bushings.

I wonder if this also has to do with setting the tailpiece too high? I always put it at the lowest height at which the strings don't press on the back of the bridge (preferably tight down, but that isn't always possible if the neck angle is too steep so the bridge has to be up high). Although it should be fine since they're at least that high when you use them with a stopbar bridge.

It is very odd - they should be steel or brass, both of which are strong enough not to bend like that… I doubt these can be. This doesn't fill me with any great confidence about the quality of the hardware in general.

Tailpiece too high can do it- but if the posts can bend there then it will only take a small amount of sustained horizontal force to distort the ridges in the bushing thread, which might make it difficult to thread the new ones in.

This is what happened with my Epi.

I had to replace the bushings too.

From the pic though I'd say it is unlikely, as you say.

bertie

thomasw88 said:

 I have never used the screw in the body method before 

that bit puzzles me............... method of what ?  

FX_Munkee

Despite what ICBM mentioned about not top wrapping with the new posts, you might want to still consider it as it will mean you can probably screw the tailpiece right down to the body, therefore avoiding the situation you've curently ended up at.

ICBM

FX_Munkee said:

Despite what ICBM mentioned about not top wrapping with the new posts, you might want to still consider it as it will mean you can probably screw the tailpiece right down to the body, therefore avoiding the situation you've curently ended up at.

Yes, that's true if you screw it down tight. Don't do it *unless* you do that though.

thomasw88

bertie said:

thomasw88 said:

 I have never used the screw in the body method before 

that bit puzzles me............... method of what ?  

of having the tailpiece screwed all the way down into the body, and then top wrapping.