Is This Solo Atonal?

Bellycaster

Great song and solo, but I always muse at how he worked a solo like this to fit. It's on the edge of everything. Is it Atonal or is it cleverly worked into the Key of the song? It's not a typical "Chord Tone" solo?

Solo at 2:10

I know that EVH is a bit of a Wiz at Atonality(I know, it's not him), but this seems different. Guys on here who are a bit more theory savvy than me might have insight.

What's your take on it?

 

 

bigjon

It uses mainly E half-whole diminished to get its effect, with an occasional A note replacing the G# in scalar runs which makes E dorian b2 the best fit- 2nd mode of the melodic minor scale. However it's really functioning as a locrian with a natural 6th - same notes, different harmonic role. 

bigjon

E half-whole diminished up the open E string - 

0 1 3 4 6 7 9 10 12

E dorian b2 / E locrian nat6 up the open E string - 

0 1 3 5 7 9 10 12

Also useful for this kind of atonal scronky effect:

E superlocrian up the open E string -

0 1 3 4 6 8 10 12

viz

Wise remarks BJ, wise remarks. Have a wisdom.

Fusionista

Brilliant bigjon. How do I give a wisdom ?

As a kid (and still now) I was fascinated by languages.  It was gobbledygook, but not as we know it, Jim.  As I have got older I have realised many things are like language.  Music for one.  That solo is for me like someone speaking in French at an English party.  There is the general hubbub and then there is this snippet of foreign conversation. I might aver in passing that that riff is about as interesting as a hubbub!  The conversation however is intriguing.

On another level, in comes bigjon with his explanation.  Technically not another language (actually a register), but to all intents and purposes...  Whatever, he is like a linguist: he has identified the language.  That's the next musical challenge for me..

Bellycaster

@bigjon

Nice one bj, you got 2 more frets for that contribution. Great breakdown there, I've not ventured towards Locrian and advanced modes yet. I'm sticking with the usual 6 for now.

In hindsight, and re-listening to the chords behind the solo, it makes more sense(to my ear)but I didn't have the Theory in my head to explain it.

 

ddlooping

Weird, I can hear some Jaco Pastorius in there.  :-O

Bellycaster

@ddlooping

Wow, not heard those for a while. Jaco was about as technically proficient as it gets. I'll have to put Weather Report into my "In Tray".

tonyrath

Jody Fisher does a great book an encyclopedia of all the modes of the major and the minor scales and goes into great detail of all the modes. Worth checking out and learning some of them 

viz

Ooh thanks.

Bellycaster

@tonyrath

Thanks for the tip on the book, Tony. I have understanding of Modes, but I tend to stay with Dorian through to Aeolian, not ventured into Locrian or Melodic Minors yet or the Dominant variations ie: Phrygian Dom etc.

Like bigjon's breakdown of it explained to me, it's territory I have not studied yet.

It's "slowly does it" with me

 

sheraton52

It's actually the head to Donna Lee,made famous by Charlie Parker,written I think by Mile Davis?

octatonic

sheraton52 said:

It's actually the head to Donna Lee,made famous by Charlie Parker,written I think by Mile Davis?

Yup, absolutely Donna Lee.

sheraton52

Sure it was Miles Davis in 1947..whoever wrote it it's a bastard to play on the guitar!!,one of the most difficult heads ever..

octatonic

Oh, it isn't THAT difficult.... :-)

http://www.jamesrichmond.com/misc/dl_200bpm.mp3

Bellycaster

@sheraton52

I just listened to that, the solo seems to be very similar at the start to how Donna Lee starts, have a WOW for being a clever chappy.

 

carlos

PROTIP: you can 'easily' play superlocrian by raising the root of a major scale. Everything else just falls into place. So to play for instance Db/C# Super Locrian, you'd just play the C major scale with the Db/C# instead of the C. 

viz

Yes. All 462 heptatonic scales are "easy". It's the octatonic scales that are more difficult beause the rhythm of the scale is so strange initially.

ThePrettyDamned

What are the chords underneath the solo?  They sound pretty open to interpretation, I can imagine a nice chromatic or diminished idea working well with it in a heavier setting...

I know nothing about scales, I tend to try and put notes in that sound good so some of my recorded ideas have some interesting sounding things on them but I wouldn't know how to recreate them!

sheraton52

Sorry double post

sheraton52

octatonic said:

Oh, it isn't THAT difficult.... :-)

http://www.jamesrichmond.com/misc/dl_200bpm.mp3

Sorry James.I meant for me!!

Here's a great version,head starts at 0.55.In unison..rest is a bit messy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aMz78egVK4