AMT Electronics F-1 preamp pedal

guitarfishbay

guitarfishbay said:

I skim read the manual earlier, there are some switches on the inside relating to the effects loop.  Have you checked they're set up right?

Du'h, read some of your earlier posts and it looks like you are aware of them.  A bit of a shame if there is bleed

Drew_TNBD

Yeah there is; I didn't notice it before, because I didn't have the amp channels cranked. Live, it's noticable, but not intolerable. Need to explore it more as I say.

chrispy108

Is the switching on this mechanical or electronic? I'm not 100%, but doesn't it take a 4PDT switch to switch between two loops with an led and properly ground everything?

guitarfishbay

Disappointing so far, but I hope it can be resolved. 

Got to say I enjoy reading your FX reports because I know you are very picky and will find all the flaws in a piece of gear, and also will actually point them out.  I'm still convinced very few people do proper warts and all reviews when they post them up.  Maybe I'm just cynical, but I don't think many people have the guts to bash something they own - either out of pride, or out of not wanting to kill the resale value for when they flip it.

I don't mind if a piece of equipment has a flaw if it is one I can live with, but if it is one that I can't then I'd rather read a good review and not buy it.

ThePrettyDamned

How about using a line switcher? So you run the f1 direct into the power amp, and use a line switcher to select between the amp input and the f1 input.

Not sure if it would work for you effects wise, but you know...

monquixote

Shame it didn't work out. 

The clean tones on the demo were really impressive. 

digitalscream

Bugger. It's possible that the level from the amp is causing a bit of high-frequency clipping at the AMT preamp's channel return, thus causing the feedback.

Perhaps a passive A/B loop pedal might help? It's a bit of a PITA, but if the only remaining problem is the bleed then it's a small sacrifice.

guitarfishbay

digitalscream said:

Perhaps a passive A/B loop pedal might help? It's a bit of a PITA, but if the only remaining problem is the bleed then it's a small sacrifice.

Currently this makes it unsuitable for me.

Buying something to solve one problem that needs me to buy something else to make it work is a no go for me and my own approach to gear.  I like an uncluttered board and a simple setup, so I'd rather just buy one unit that does work rather than create a patchwork of several things that only work when I have them all.

Also the bleed makes it a no go for me (especially if a drummer can tell, lol), since there are some sections where it is just me playing on a clean tone in my band's music.  My Ironheart clean is far from special, but it is clean and I can set the volume where I want to.

So my 5150 GAS is back to being expensive again until Drew finds a cost effective and practical solution he's happy with.  If it works for him I'd be confident it'd work.

Personally I'm waiting on NAMM before I buy anything else.  I also think Drew should approach pedal manufacturers to discuss a 'Drew Approved' mark of approval if anyone makes anything that actually works for him without having to compromise somewhere.  )

Drew_TNBD

Thinking about it though, my sound was really wank last night. Even when I took the F1 out of the chain, it still didn't sound as good. Maybe I've got a tube that is going, because it was feeding back like crazy last night, even without the F1 - although the nature of the feedback was different, depending whether I went through the F1 or not. So I think it was doing *something* to the tone. Just not sure. Need to explore tonight.

Drew_TNBD

guitarfishbay said:

So my 5150 GAS is back to being expensive again until Drew finds a cost effective and practical solution he's happy with.  If it works for him I'd be confident it'd work.

Glad to help! )

Personally I'm waiting on NAMM before I buy anything else.  I also think Drew should approach pedal manufacturers to discuss a 'Drew Approved' mark of approval if anyone makes anything that actually works for him without having to compromise somewhere.  )

That'll be the day!

Last night on the way home from practice, I was starting to think that maybe it would be easier to just solve what I don't like about the Marshall high-gain... or rather, try and give it the aspects of the EVH that I prefer. The EVH sounds much tighter with palm-muting, so maybe all of this could've been avoided just by boosting the Marshall with a tubescreamer?!

*kicks self in face*

digitalscream

Time for a tap test on the preamp valves - you might have one that's gone microphonic.

Still leaves you with the leak problem. Do you have a volume pedal you can stick between the output of the 5150 preamp and the AMT, just to see if it's simply too hot a signal coming into the pedal that's causing the leak?

Drew_TNBD

Actually if you go back to that audio clip I posted, I didn't notice it before, but you do hear the bleed at around 2:29. It was a little bit more obvious than it is there in the rehearsal room. You hear it again at 2:58.

You think I might benefit from turning the AMT's master all the way up, and then dialing in the volumes of the amp a little lower, so that I'm not hitting the channel loop with a really high level signal? I think I need to try that. Only issue with that is, you'll be boosting after the fact.. which worries me, regarding noise-floor.

digitalscream

Drew_fx said: Actually if you go back to that audio clip I posted, I didn't notice it before, but you do hear the bleed at around 2:29. It was a little bit more obvious than it is there in the rehearsal room. You hear it again at 2:58.

You think I might benefit from turning the AMT's master all the way up, and then dialing in the volumes of the amp a little lower, so that I'm not hitting the channel loop with a really high level signal? I think I need to try that. Only issue with that is, you'll be boosting after the fact.. which worries me, regarding noise-floor.
If you're gating after the 5150, it shouldn't be too bad. At the very least, it's worth trying.

guitarfishbay

Drew_fx said:

Last night on the way home from practice, I was starting to think that maybe it would be easier to just solve what I don't like about the Marshall high-gain... or rather, try and give it the aspects of the EVH that I prefer. The EVH sounds much tighter with palm-muting, so maybe all of this could've been avoided just by boosting the Marshall with a tubescreamer?!

*kicks self in face*

I just tried to go back to the JVM vs EVH clip from the incoming thread and got 404 error.

From memory I seem to think the EVH had a bigger sound to it, with the Marshall being more narrow.

Boosting the Marshall is only going to make it narrower still, I'm not sure if you'll like that as much as the EVH but it is worth a go and is cheap to try.

Anyway if you go back to playing something as big as the Marshall head plus can't find any midi units that work you might as well go and get the EVH 100 watt and call it quits (for now).  That'll have the tones you like from the 50 with none of the faffing with the clean channel.  They're big heads, but so is a Marshall.  

Drew_TNBD

Yeah I rejigged my Dropbox recently, so don't have that clip available now.

Thing is with the Marshall, I used to be sooooooo into it. And when I listen to clips of it from before, it still sounds really amazing. I don't know what has changed. I am all confused now. I'm wondering if the bias has drifted or something, causing it to lack balls.

Drew_TNBD

I listen to this:


And to me, it sounds epic. There isn't a single tone there that I dislike. Okay, it's in a mix, but my guitar is loud enough to get an impression of the amp. It's sounding different to this. I did change the tubes, and Marshall did replace the main board (due to a faulty noise gate iirc, this was back in August)

I wonder if that has anything to do with it.

Gonna have to do some more comparison recordings I think, try and get to the bottom of this.

ThePrettyDamned

I still think you should try putting the f1 direct to power amp, then have a line selector to switch between amp input and f1 input. You love the EVH sound as it is, but for the clean - if you really, really can't fix it (I'm positive it can be done... Somehow...) then maybe have the Marshall tech'd.

Also, your ears become accustomed to tone, I think. So after a few months of constant use, your amazing sounding amp might, to you, sound... Normal. Which causes a craving...

Drew_TNBD

It wont work like that dude, coz once you plug something into the return, the send becomes active... thus the EVH preamp wouldn't make any noise. I'd need to feed the send signal back into the return somehow.

ThePrettyDamned

Drew_fx said:

It wont work like that dude, coz once you plug something into the return, the send becomes active... thus the EVH preamp wouldn't make any noise. I'd need to feed the send signal back into the return somehow.

Ballz.  

Well, worth a go.  Not sure how to sort signal leak - maybe write to AMT and tell them, perhaps they'll send a replacement?  You never know, might be a fault.

Drew_TNBD

Okay, done some tests tonight.

If you turn up the master past 9 o'clock - which seems to be unity - then keep the amp channels volumes low, the bleed really isn't so severe. What I was doing in the practice room last night was I had the master volume at 9 o'clock, and I had my amp channels near enough noon. It was fucking LOUD.. and the bleed was quite obvious. Running the master at noon, means I have to put the amp channels at less than 9 o'clock in order to prevent my face from being blown off. So I think there probably *is* a happy medium to dial in here.

So I think the bleed thing is pretty minimal. Just don't be stupid and drive the pedal too hard, and you'll be fine.

But this will increase the noise floor, and it's particularly noticeable on the cleans. Depends how anal you are about it I suppose; I *think* I could probably live with it.

Keep the bass knob low. Noon and high starts to sound extremely flubby; through a 2x12 cab anyway. Don't recall if it was any different through my 4x12, but I suspect not.

Here is another clip:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/630473/GearDemos/AMT F1/F1QuickDemo2.mp3

This gives some idea of the bleed when the master is at about noon, and the amp channels are just below 9 o'clock. As you can hear, it really isn't too bad.

And this clip:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/630473/GearDemos/AMT F1/F1QuickDemo3.mp3

Gives an idea of how much it affects the tone of the amp channels. It does affect them... it's not totally unpleasant, but it isn't exactly the same. Should probably be aware of that.

So I dunno... solved the bleed issue. The feedback issue is just me being too loud and not used to not having my noise-gates I think (I was using Digitech GSP previously, which had a gate I could use) so I think we can ignore that one. But the tonal variation.. not 100% sure I am happy with that, and the noise-floor... not sure there either.