Monitors some muso's just don't listen!

What's Hot
maltingsaudiomaltingsaudio Frets: 3098
Corporate posh gig tonight with a band of very pro musicians. Unfortunately due corporate gigness my mix position for the show was 6ft to one side of the stage facing the audience, thats Ok did the soundcheck in the afternoon from infront so had a mix and tweeked it by running into the audience from time to time and also had a spotter at the back of the room.

Thing was I could hear more monitor mix than front of house from my show position.I was running a 4way mix and the stage was quite small and I could hear every instrument in every monitor, the keyboard player still insisted he wanted more of his vocal and guitar, and the lead vocal wanted more of him in his monitor. I suppose you had to have been there to appreciate how cloth eared these guys were or maybe it was a nerves thing. As it was I had to run front of house louder than I wanted to drown out the spill from the monitors into the audience!

I would also add every one was happy with the gig rebooked ect but did make me wonder about the state of certains indviduals hearing! 
www.maltingsaudio.co.uk
0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom

Comments

  • spacecadetspacecadet Frets: 671
    I must say I am ever so slightly guilty of this myself. Last night was no exception. My problem has always been that there is so much dynamic range in the set that by the time we are going for it I can't hear a thing and then when we bring it back down its brutally loud. I am also the foh sound engineer, monitor engineer, lighting engineer, lead guitarist, harmony vocalist and musical director. I might try a volume pedal on the monitors and see if that works.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357

    I've began to hate wedge monitors onstage, they really do screw up the FOH mix. IEM's wired or wireless are so much better for the house mix but your never gonna persuade some guys to switch I spose. 

    The iPad wireless mix aps are a godsend when you can't get your position outfront. We just got the new A & H Q16 digital mixer, one of the first in the country. iPad remote mix  ap comes out for it end of this month. Hopefully it's gonna be as good as the Presonus one we have. 

    @spacecadet : try a single bud in one  ear which carries your monitor mix. If you like that then try a set of IEM's. 
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • I agree with all Danny's said, have resisted the ipad thing for my iLive simply due to the fact its apple and touch screen and fiddly and I'm old but coming round to biting the bullet.

    Q16 is great but wish they'd made it easior  to integrate with iLive system, thinking about choppng my aging mx wiz and DM24 for one but small analogue is more acceptable for small dry hires
    www.maltingsaudio.co.uk
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • I did a festival once 12 bands in 12 hours, 15min turn rounds. only one band was a real problem, where the singer guitarist who happened to be wearing a hat that came down over his ears. Strangely enough he had a problem where his vocal was not loud enough. I had two Mackie 1400s with EV SX300 for monitors, still wasn`t loud enough, so I walked up to him, and this is the key point, I kept a smile on my face as I told him quietly that's all you are getting, maybe you should take your F***** hat off and turn your amp down or just get off the stage before I take a mic stand and show you how long and strong they are !

    Needless to say he said ok. I walked back to desk and just carried on as if nothing happened. A few bands asked me what did I say to him, but I remained silent  :(|) 

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • PolarityManPolarityMan Frets: 7273
    If that's really what you said to him it sounds like a bit of a dick move. You're there to make him sound good at the end of the day and you ought to be able to do your job while remaining civil. 
    ဈǝᴉʇsɐoʇǝsǝǝɥɔဪቌ
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ...maybe you should take your F***** hat off and turn your amp down or just get off the stage before I take a mic stand and show you how long and strong they are !

    Were you in the Royal Navy? ;)
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • If that's really what you said to him it sounds like a bit of a dick move. You're there to make him sound good at the end of the day and you ought to be able to do your job while remaining civil. 
    Got to be honest, I agree with this.
    OK so the kid was probably being a bit of a div, but at the end of the day he may not have the experience that you have and he may not understand the complexities of sound engineering (how many band members DO?!)...maybe a few pointers about microphone technique and a few assurances that yes his guitar was loud enough out front would have worked better than threatening the guy?


    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom

  • I could hear more monitor mix than front of house from my show position.I was running a 4way mix and the stage was quite small and I could hear every instrument in every monitor, the keyboard player still insisted he wanted more of his vocal and guitar, and the lead vocal wanted more of him in his monitor. I suppose you had to have been there to appreciate how cloth eared these guys were or maybe it was a nerves thing. As it was I had to run front of house louder than I wanted to drown out the spill from the monitors into the audience!

    I would also add every one was happy with the gig rebooked ect but did make me wonder about the state of certains indviduals hearing! 
    Ah, I have definitely played gigs where the monitors were either as loud or louder than the FOH mix. I do think that some people just don't "get" monitor mixing and really do not understand that the music coming out of the onstage mix does not need to be the same as the FOH mix.
    We rarely have a sound man (we're a wedding band, so we do all that ourselves...we don't play venues with their own in-house man often) but I remember one occasion playing a lovely huge stage with a cracking PA and a very knowledgable sound man. He asked one of our members what he wanted in his monitor, and the reply was "Well, a bit of everything, really..." which is just about the wrongest answer he could have given!

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • There's being a bit of an idiot and there's playing the rock star attitude to a load of other muso's who were not impressed with him, plus there's all the put downs he was giving to others, so as I said I spoke nicely to him so no one noticed and it got the job done. I suppose I could have wasted a half hour of everyone else's time to pander to him if that's what you would do, fine.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • PolarityManPolarityMan Frets: 7273
    I certainly wouldn't have threatened him with violence. TBH I dont really think you did either and you're just exaggerating your tale. But if you said exactly what you wrote then I think that's pretty dickish. 
    ဈǝᴉʇsɐoʇǝsǝǝɥɔဪቌ
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • What would you do then ?
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • PolarityManPolarityMan Frets: 7273
    Well probably turned up with actual monitors if I was doing sound for a festival .....but given the constraints I don't think there's anything wrong with having a word and saying what the kit is and isn't capable of but I'd do it without the implied insults and threats.
    ဈǝᴉʇsɐoʇǝsǝǝɥɔဪቌ
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • Eleven bands had no problems with monitors supplied, in fact no one has had any problems with the monitors supplied when I have used them in the past. Seeing as they are designed to be used as monitors do you have a point ?
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • PolarityManPolarityMan Frets: 7273
    Compare the angle against dedicated floor wedges. They're better than nothing monitoring wise but you will need more volume than a traditional wedge just because the driver is typically pointed at the performers knees rather than their head.

    Maybe the other 11 bands weren't as loud, or perhaps the other 11 bands are more experienced and used to playing with a variety of (or in some cases no) monitoring setups.

    | don't know, I wasn't there. But I do know that daring to ask for more vocals in a monitor shouldn't be justification for a soundman giving abuse to a performer.


    ဈǝᴉʇsɐoʇǝsǝǝɥɔဪቌ
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • I don't think I made myself clear possibly, we had loads of power on stage, and the EV's had a little spike to point them to be used like a wedge monitor, so hey can be used as a monitor in the same way a hedge can be used as a PA cab. The volume onstage was ridiculously loud, to the point where I felt enough was enough, I was pretty reasonable to every bands request, but this guy was a total knob. I am pretty experienced with sound guys and have been on both sides of he desk a lot since the 70's, like I said if you would pander to people like at good luck to you.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • Drew_TNBDDrew_TNBD Frets: 22445

    I did a festival once 12 bands in 12 hours, 15min turn rounds. only one band was a real problem, where the singer guitarist who happened to be wearing a hat that came down over his ears. Strangely enough he had a problem where his vocal was not loud enough. I had two Mackie 1400s with EV SX300 for monitors, still wasn`t loud enough, so I walked up to him, and this is the key point, I kept a smile on my face as I told him quietly that's all you are getting, maybe you should take your F***** hat off and turn your amp down or just get off the stage before I take a mic stand and show you how long and strong they are !

    Needless to say he said ok. I walked back to desk and just carried on as if nothing happened. A few bands asked me what did I say to him, but I remained silent  :(|) 

    Bit of a prick move. Particularly considering that the chances are that his hat was made of a porous material and had no effect on the sound he was hearing whatsoever.

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    Having done my fair share of sound engineering at shit gigs I have to say I would give Koneguitarist the full benefit of the doubt. There are some real knobs who think they're God's gift as soon as they get behind a microphone.

    My usual technique was simply to make their monitor feed back (very easy) and say, no it can't go any louder unless you want that all the way through.

    The FOH mix is more important, period.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • Thanks ICBM, first and only time I have ever done that, never had to resort to it before, it was actually painful onstage for the other PA guy to actually move mics and stuff for the bands, and this knob kept going "is that all you got ? Jeez"  and other remarks like that, not very professional at all, I walked up and said it very quietly out of everyone`s ear shot, like I said with a smile on my face so most punters had no idea.

    I have had to deal with all sorts of Assholes in my time, Other sound guys have said use the old pitchshifter and delay only in his monitor mix trick, but mine worked just as well. I am sure some of the armchair PA guys could tell me what I should have done, but unfortunately they were not there at the time.

    8->
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • PolarityManPolarityMan Frets: 7273
    Id suggest you actually take a moment to go back and read what was written. It doesn't mean what you seem to think it does.
    ဈǝᴉʇsɐoʇǝsǝǝɥɔဪቌ
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
Sign In or Register to comment.