Is anyone here self taught

octatonic

I understand the position Emp but that isn't how it works. 

Think of it like a language- learning more English words doesn't diminish your ability to write a cogent sentence. 

 Or.... 

 It like learn new words, learn more English not make less sentence make. 

Geddit?

Phil_aka_Pip

@Emp_Fab you are clearly someone who would appreciate an elegant set of axioms and rules. I think you'd enjoy a properly structured approach to theory, partly for its own sake, and partly because it gives you the language to describe what you hear, or what you want to play. It is quite a beautiful thing.

"You'll love it. It's a way of life. The white zone is for loading and unloading only ..."

DesVegas

Self taught from The Cure guitar books back in the early 90's hence all the songs i used to write were in minor keys.

Now i'm concentrating on majors and the tunes i write are somewhat more upbeat.

Still never had one lesson but i would recommend it as you are bound to be taught something useful

EricTheWeary

Self taught, crap but now on the look out for wanking lessons at £25 an hour.

SRich

Self-taught also........got my first guitar when I was 14 and I'm now......

.......well that was 47 years ago.

I'll get that song and chord structure right soon, I promise.....

Plectrum

Learnt to read music (at a very basic level) and play recorder at school. Completely self-taught on guitar.

Cabicular

Self taught on guitar bass drums and piano. I've had a little vocal training at school

Taught myself how to read and write music when I was going through my Zappa obsession but I'm too rusty to do it quickly enough now

a bit of theory is really really handy though. You only notice it when you are playing with someone who has none.It makes it harder to develop a common vocabulary. (e.g. can you sing the minor 3rd harmony I'll sing the fifth) becomes half an hour of "just sing this bit... no this bit ... no hang on to that note... for two bars.. I mean 1234 1234 etc

If I was to do it again I would probably take lessons to speed up the theory aspect but I'd go my own way as soon as I could

viz

I have a resonably academic grounding in music and theory but am self-taught on guitar. I have only recently started to apply theory to what I'm playing, and I'm finding that incredibly exciting, interesting and useful. Things are suddenly starting to click into place, and now I'm having lessons, it's completely necessary for the lessons to work. Maybe my education is making that easier for me - probably it is.

Before it was like I knew the language and vocab but had never tried to listen to people or speak. Now I absolutely love seeing how the theory applies to what I hear and what I play.

I don't really concur with the idea that music theory is irrelevant to guitarists or that it hampers inspiraion or creativity, but I do empathise with the position, and in a passive way I was of the same opinion. I was not against theory but I largely ignored it. I mean, ultimately why would you think you needed theoretical knowledge if you were already a practical player and were enjoying your playing? But now I do think theory can open doors to your playing, as well as being very exciting in its own right (if you're the sort of person that finds that sort of thing exciting!)

I think having lessons can be a good way of kicking that whole journey off, if you're interested in it.

koneguitarist

Completely self taught part from father sitting me down and showing me 3 chords A,E and D, and saying that's what Elvis plays on that's all right mama, took me ages.

Only twice in 38 years has the issue of reading music come up, and I bluffed my way through it both times. 

I understand the importance of reading music and being taught correctly, but if everybody was taught the same curriculum on guitar, where would the Beck, Clapton, Page, BB King, Peter Green come from? 

koneguitarist

You can talk and hold a conversation without learning how to read and write, why is music any different, just another language. 

slacker

Mixture of lessons, self taught, osmosis and Bert Weedon. 

stratman3142

SRich said:

........got my first guitar when I was 14 and I'm now......

.......well that was 47 years ago....

Snap (almost), I started playing just before my 14th birthday and this year I'll have been playing 47 years. So I'm not (quite) the oldest git on the forum

randomhandclaps

Emp_Fab said:

Self-taught here too.  The problem for me, and I suspect, a lot of guitarists, is that I just want to play.  I see learning how to read music, learning the maths and theory behind it all as dull as dishwater.  Especially if learning all that stuff costs money.  It's like asking a kid to pay for his own maths lessons!

Sounds like the kind of social and educational reasoning of gypsies.  "If I can get by without being able to read and write then what's the benefit.".

Why do people see no negative in paying to learn most other hobbies but playing guitar is different?  It's not to say you can't teach yourself as virtually all players (especially experienced ones) are self-taught to one degree or another but to say why should you have to pay to learn something is a pretty silly angle IMO.

koneguitarist said:

You can talk and hold a conversation without learning how to read and write, why is music any different, just another language. 

That's perfectly true but that's treating conversing with humans as one dimensional - solely by mouth.  You can treat music completely one dimensionally too and some people like Status Quo have made a very good living out of doing that.

koneguitarist said:

I understand the importance of reading music and being taught correctly, but if everybody was taught the same curriculum on guitar, where would the Beck, Clapton, Page, BB King, Peter Green come from? 

So if everyone was taught correctly we would have less endless derivative blues clones all just basically copying each other?    Also the two that broke away in that group - Beck & Page both had really solid groundings in musical theory.

Personally I feel that with time most people can teach themselves anything.  The trickiest part is actual technique and posture which is very hard to spot and correct yourself which is why even the greatest singers and dancers have teachers, or top athletes have coaches.

The question becomes a little bit irrelevant now because for me someone who is self-taught is someone who has never purchased a magazine or DVD with tips and lessons or watched YouTube videos etc. which I am guessing is an incredible rarity in this age.

Emp_Fab said:

I'm of the (probably idiotic) school that thinks that learning the theory will somehow rob me of my freedom and creativity and will suck the joy out of playing as I'll no longer be following my soul but a mental set of rules.  

This can actually be true but you then have to hope that you find your window of creativity before your hit your ceiling of ability.

randomhandclaps

viz said:

I don't really concur with the idea that music theory is irrelevant to guitarists

TBH @Viz this is an angle that I actually find quite boring and shameful with guitarists.  You can meet almost any other instrumentalist and they will have at the very least a basic grounding in theory and it makes conversing or working together easy, and this is what I love about music - it's a language.  Guitarists on the other hand are a different breed.  For every one you meet who has the grasp other instrumentalists tend to you meet 5 more who not only have now but believe it's completely irrelevant.  For me it's the difference between learning a foreign language or regurgitating a set bunch of phrases in order to get by.

There's no issue with people who haven't had the opportunity to learn these things (although the internet is making things way easier) but in almost any walk of life I find it bizarre that if you are passionate about something you wouldn't want to understand it more.

HAL9000

Self taught here too. Learnt the common chord shapes a few years before I knew they actually had names like C, Am, F, etc.

My technique is rubbish and definitely limiting. Like others have said, lessons taken earlier would probably have been useful, but too late now to correct bad habits.

Cabicular

koneguitarist;960145" said:

You can talk and hold a conversation without learning how to read and write, why is music any different, just another language. 

I've got no problem if people can't read or write music but if they don't know how to count 7/8 or the difference between a BbMaj7 a Bb7 or Bbmin7 then it is a pain

You can hold a conversation without having to read or write as long as you have a common vocabulary
Try having a conversation with an Amish guy about V8 engines for example

octatonic

Cabicular said:

koneguitarist;960145" said:

You can talk and hold a conversation without learning how to read and write, why is music any different, just another language. 

I've got no problem if people can't read or write music but if they don't know how to count 7/8 or the difference between a BbMaj7 a Bb7 or Bbmin7 then it is a pain

You can hold a conversation without having to read or write as long as you have a common vocabulary
Try having a conversation with an Amish guy about V8 engines for example

Agree 100%.

samzadgan

after a little more thought...i think being self taught has meant that i do weird shit which is good, and other players have sometimes commented that they dig the some of the unconventional things i do...but...i think if i was to go now and get lessons it would be really beneficial. By now i have built up my own style, and the lessons are not going to infringe on my style and sound, but more than likely expand and open up new possibilities for my creativity to venture into.

so i guess what i am saying is, maybe to my way of thinking and processing, self taught to a degree and then going to lessons is the better way of doing it. Because if i had lessons to start with, it probably would have stunted my personal expression into sound and style.

of course everyone is different, and this just reflecting on my own way of processing things...

koneguitarist

I would admit to not being the most adventurous guitarist, and I know very little theorey, but my mate a local school teacher is a grade 8 guitarist, who is asking me how I play.?

I am not one of those who think you shouldn't learn to read music, but I don't think it is that important if you don't. 

I mentioned Clapton Page etc because they were known guitarists, EVH would be another example.

Picking up theorey as you go along is one thing, learning to read after you have learnt to play is another, but learning to read music is not that important if you just want to play and gig with bands, understanding what music is about is a different thing altogether.

Did Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder spend all their time thinking, what is this Dorian mode, does it fit with this minor pentatonic, or did they just think this sounds nice, wonder what it would sound like if I move my first finger here instead? 

Emp_Fab

OK, a more reasoned take on it this time...  I accept that taking guitar lessons in playing would definitely be a good thing, but I'm not convinced I need to learn how to sight-read music or study the circle of fifths or what a phygrian scale is (apart from its obvious use for weighing phygrians).  I'm worried that slapping a load of textbooks onto my headbanging power-chord and noodling sessions will suck the fun from it.

I play to get fun from it.  Yeah, I'd like to be a better player, but if that means sacrificing any of the fun to achieve that, I'll stay where I am.  Learning theory does not look remotely fun to me.