Swapping out 8 ohm speakers for 16 ohms

firepaulmusic

I'm thinking I'd like to hear my Celestion Gold 16 ohm speaker in my Deluxe Reverb which only has 8 ohm option. Is it ok to just swap them?

jpfamps

An interesting point this.

The primary impedance of the Deluxe Reverb is around 6k which is generally regarded as too low given the voltages the valves are operated at.

12k which you would get using a 16 ohm speaker is actually nearer the "correct" value.

Many people actually use 16 ohm speakers in Deluxe Reverbs for this reason.

However would not really comparing like with like.

ICBM

I assume they've accurately reproduced that with the RI, although I've never checked.

Incidentally this is also why the characteristic overdrive sound of a stock Deluxe Reverb is rather flubby - it's often assumed to be a '6V6 sound', but really it's more of a 'low mismatch sound'. That's also why you get more power and a tighter sound out of a Deluxe with 6L6s and the stock 8-ohm speaker, because it mostly corrects that - rather than less as you would expect if the impedance was correctly matched for the 6V6s.

jpfamps

ICBM said:

I assume they've accurately reproduced that with the RI, although I've never checked.

Incidentally this is also why the characteristic overdrive sound of a stock Deluxe Reverb is rather flubby - it's often assumed to be a '6V6 sound', but really it's more of a 'low mismatch sound'. That's also why you get more power and a tighter sound out of a Deluxe with 6L6s and the stock 8-ohm speaker, because it mostly corrects that - rather than less as you would expect if the impedance was correctly matched for the 6V6s.

Yes the RI is 6k6 loading as well.

I'm not sure why they chose this loading.

The Princeton uses 8k and has lower HT (higher HT requires a higher loading).

It could even be something daft such as the higher loading would require more turns of wire that wouldn't fit in the winding window and would thus need a larger and more expensive transformer lamination.

ICBM

jpfamps said:

Yes the RI is 6k6 loading as well.

I'm not sure why they chose this loading.

The Princeton uses 8k and has lower HT (higher HT requires a higher loading).

It could even be something daft such as the higher loading would require more turns of wire that wouldn't fit in the winding window and would thus need a larger and more expensive transformer lamination.

My guess is that the Deluxe was originally intended to be a 6L6 amp, but being the cheapskate that he was, Leo found he could get away with 6V6s and they never bothered to change the rest.

Whatever the reason, I bet money is at the bottom of it.

firepaulmusic

Can you swap out the 6V6s in a DR for 6L6s. That sounds like something I'd like to try if it's possible.....

Jimbro66

Is there any disadvantage in sound or power resulting from putting a 16 Ohm speaker in a DR? I'm wondering why the factory doesn't do it as there's normally no price difference between 8- and 16-Ohm speakers.

ICBM

firepaulmusic said:

Can you swap out the 6V6s in a DR for 6L6s. That sounds like something I'd like to try if it's possible.....

Yes, but you need to rebias - don't just put them in and try it. With the reissues this should be just within the range of the trimmer, but it's possible that with some 6L6s it might not be.

Jimbro66 said:

Is there any disadvantage in sound or power resulting from putting a 16 Ohm speaker in a DR? I'm wondering why the factory doesn't do it as there's normally no price difference between 8- and 16-Ohm speakers.

Slightly more power and a tighter response. The factory doesn't do it because 8 ohms is the original spec and gives the original sound.

jpfamps

ICBM said:

Jimbro66 said:

Is there any disadvantage in sound or power resulting from putting a 16 Ohm speaker in a DR? I'm wondering why the factory doesn't do it as there's normally no price difference between 8- and 16-Ohm speakers.

Slightly more power and a tighter response. The factory doesn't do it because 8 ohms is the original spec and gives the original sound.

Fender use 8 ohm speakers in their other amps, so ordering 16 ohm speakers just for one amp would actually be more expensive.

jpfamps

ICBM said:

jpfamps said:

Yes the RI is 6k6 loading as well.

I'm not sure why they chose this loading.

The Princeton uses 8k and has lower HT (higher HT requires a higher loading).

It could even be something daft such as the higher loading would require more turns of wire that wouldn't fit in the winding window and would thus need a larger and more expensive transformer lamination.

My guess is that the Deluxe was originally intended to be a 6L6 amp, but being the cheapskate that he was, Leo found he could get away with 6V6s and they never bothered to change the rest.

Whatever the reason, I bet money is at the bottom of it.

If this had been a Marshall amp then it could simply have been a cock up. I'm sure Fender did have a good reason, and cost may well have been a consideration.

We must remember that Deluxe was a "student" model and not the "holy grail of tone" that it is now regarded as.

Indeed Fender didn't even considered that the Deluxe Reverb merited a logo lavishing on it, such was its lowly status in the amp range.

Jimbro66

jpfamps said:

ICBM said:

Jimbro66 said:

Is there any disadvantage in sound or power resulting from putting a 16 Ohm speaker in a DR? I'm wondering why the factory doesn't do it as there's normally no price difference between 8- and 16-Ohm speakers.

Slightly more power and a tighter response. The factory doesn't do it because 8 ohms is the original spec and gives the original sound.

Fender use 8 ohm speakers in their other amps, so ordering 16 ohm speakers just for one amp would actually be more expensive.

So is the speaker in the Rift Deluxe 22 8 Ohm or 16 Ohm? And what governed that choice? I'm just interested to learn a little.

Jimbro66

Jimbro66

Jimbro66

Jimbro66

I tried to post a further question but got the dreaded 'Your comment will appear after it is approved'.

Looks like the spam spotting filter is being a little over-zealous   maybe because I mentioned one of @JPF's excellent amps?

Jimbro66

And then it appeared several times )  Entertaining....

Mods, if you could delete the three duplications that would be grand -  thanks

RiftAmps

Jimbro66 said:

jpfamps said:

ICBM said:

Jimbro66 said:

Is there any disadvantage in sound or power resulting from putting a 16 Ohm speaker in a DR? I'm wondering why the factory doesn't do it as there's normally no price difference between 8- and 16-Ohm speakers.

Slightly more power and a tighter response. The factory doesn't do it because 8 ohms is the original spec and gives the original sound.

Fender use 8 ohm speakers in their other amps, so ordering 16 ohm speakers just for one amp would actually be more expensive.

So is the speaker in the Rift Deluxe 22 8 Ohm or 16 Ohm? And what governed that choice? I'm just interested to learn a little.

That amp runs an 8ohm speaker into a 6k6 transformer. The amp will happily run 6L6s, you'll just need to rebias.

dannyboy82

Digging up this old thread to ask, “Is it safe to use a 16ohm speaker with a Princeton reverb reissue?”

I’ve trawled the net to find many a contrasting opinion so thought try here for a definitive answer.

Thanks,

Dan

dannyboy82

Anyone know if this is likely to cause damage.

ICBM

No, it won't cause damage.

It may not be ideal for tone and volume though - from memory I'm pretty sure the Princeton's OT is correctly matched for 8 ohms.

dannyboy82

Thanks ICBM, I’ll give it a go.