PRS forum administrators delete users reviews of the Wudtone PRS DD upgrade

andypwudtone

Administrators over on the official PRS forum removed two threads which included detailed user reviews about the Wudtone PRS DD upgrade. If anyone wants to read them, I have the text and we may post on our blog or here at some point once we have checked its Ok with the originators. Disappointing as the fact is administrators don't do the same for OEM pickup type reviews over on that forum. It was a genuine and independent PRS enthusiast, forum user who took time to thoroughly test, start their own thread and post a very detailed review ( which included an amount of non subjective evidence) about something very PRS relevant,  that got taken down. Meanwhile a top chap who I have known for some time and gigs all over in the South Wales based Pipedream band has been testing his extensively for the past couple of months and here are his findings. thank you to Steve for the effort going into this review 

" I have been a PRS devotee for almost 30 years now (ever since For The Very First Time by Robin Beck on Top Of The Pops!) and I have always remained 'loyal' to the way the models I have bought (about 30 in total, currently 14 in the herd) are put together/ supplied.

I have never really joined in the trend of 'chasing' new pickups or tuners when they have arrived on the scene, except for fitting a Dragon 1 to the bridge on my very first Custom 24 from '89. I have been a firm believer that PRS 'got it right' when it comes to hardware on each transition of models as they evolve, and have left my guitars stock as a rule honestly feeling they are the best they could be 'as is'.
I have never had any interest in 'bettering' the components in any way, until now ...
I became aware of Wudtone via a few conversations with Andy Preston on Facebook, who lives not too far from me & who noticed I was a bit of a PRS nut. He suggested I tried one of his newly developed PRS bridges on one of my guitars. Although I was a little sceptical at first, he popped over my house for a chat, and the concept looked & sounded very interesting.
15 minutes later he had whipped one of his tremolo units out of a Custom 22 he had brought along & installed it in my ugly plain topped but tried & tested '95 CE22 

which has been a bit of a benchmark sound wise for me for many years ...
... when we plugged it in, the difference in tone was well, quite simply remarkable ... more grunt, guts, definition, acoustic volume and attack that it had before, and it already sounded really good before the swap ... I was intrigued & excited with the result. Andy kindly offered to lend me the tremolo unit to gig with for a while as a 'test pilot', and I am happy to report that this clever piece of engineering has given my CE22 a new lease of life!
So much more 'sound' is generated by the new bridge that I have found I need to turn down the gain a bit on my amp! My usually non-complimentary band mates (only joking guys!) commented 'what's different with that guitar? It sounds HUGE!' ... notes seemed to jump out the harder I 'dig in', sustain has increased dramatically with more 'body' to individually picked notes especially half way up the neck (between frets 5 and 15 where most of my solo's seems to occur!) than I ever had before, all good news to be honest, I am flabbergasted at the results!
Anyway, check them out at www.wudtone.com, I can't praise the product or Andy highly enough ... he also offers superb Fender tremolo replacements too if that is of interest to you!
Mention my name if you contact him as I understand he is gauging feedback from my 'test session' & he may even offer you a very special deal too!
Sorry for the long & involved post, here are a few pictures of the unit fitted to my guitar ... note the 'custom made' trem arm shaped just like a PRS one, I have tried to show the underside of the tremolo block as it is attached to the guitar to illustrate how it works (More trem in contact with the body of the guitar than before basically) but if you have any technical queries best to ask Andy ...
As the old saying goes "the proof in the pudding is is in the eating" and this upgrade proved to be very tasty indeed!

JookyChap

That is a great review, impartial is always the best. Something the PRS self-preservation ostrich club clearly don't subscribe too, unfortunately.

andypwudtone

bit more feedback which we are pleased to hear since, as Steve hasn't broken a string in about 10 gigs using the PRS DD upgrade whereas he was lucky to get 4 gigs before,    there is a clear reason so have said to Steve , Get aiming for those dynamic, sick sounding double lead bends with absolute confidence as much as you like .The probable reason is PRS use plain old countersinks on the top of their bridge plate which the string has to pass over on its way up to the saddle. Countersinks at best have two hard edged 45 degree angles but at worse, if the tool is worn which is quite often the case with countersinks, they cut leaving even sharper edges/ridges. These cause tension differences and thereby affect tuning stability but worse cut into the strings and lead to string breakages. The way we avoid this when we make the PRS DD upgrade is to use a cnc to mill radiused curves, so the string has no hard edges to encounter as it comes out of the bridge plate ( a bit of 3in1 oil on these won't harm). Stops any tension differences and therefore will end ( or at least completely minimise) string breaks at the bridge. See pic  

 , So never mind the dynamic/tone transformation and it sounds like it will have paid for itself after just a few months in a way he wasn't expecting anyways! kind regards

monquixote

I've had the same set of Elixirs on my PRS for about 2 years without breaking a string and I play it all the time.

stonevibe

Why would they delete useful threads with reviews? Are they just a bit precious about it all or did they offer any genuine explanations? 

fretmeister

No different to the Ernie Ball forum. It's a sales tool and no other opinions are tolerated.

stonevibe

I only post on there when I'm feeling mischievous. Never really hung around long enough on either of those forums to get a real feel for them.

Besides you lot are more of a laugh and on my wavelength.

WezV

most forums have much more strict rules about product placement and vendors than this one.

even here, if someone turns up promoting a product we assume they are part of the company and give them a hard time.

If you have rules like that occasionally you will block a user who may or may not be posting a positive review in good faith.

Much easier not to have those rules

stonevibe

Like I said you lot are more on my wavelength.

Or should I say none of us have figured out how to escape the asylum yet...

underdog

Where's the "who gives a shit" button when you need it?.

Adamski

both my PRS bridges have been flawless. My Tremonti for the year I've had it and my Custom for 8 years. Never broke a string, never had any choking problems and sustain has been excellent. To be honest I wouldn't want to change the sound - it's pure PRS and that's why I bought them. 

I'm also not a fan of the look of that trem on a PRS. I know that's weird and largely irrelevent but it would put me off! 

I'm just stuck in my ways though so I'm pleased that someone is making an aftermarket trem to push things forward. Seems weird that Paul wouldn't have tried something similar though considering his somewhat obsessive nature to improving his guitars. 

Adam_MD

I get Andy's point that they don't remove pickup reviews on the prs forum. I don't spend much time on there but I did read the original thread where the review was posted and it seemed genuine so I find it disappointing that it was removed.

Like Stonevibe I don't spend much time there, it smells funny and they're pretty weird.

thomasross20

I post there and do find this disappointing. Why the sudden pull? Did you query it?

andypwudtone

thomasross20 said:

I post there and do find this disappointing. Why the sudden pull? Did you query it?

I did, the initial response was 

"Advertising on this forum is limited to authorized PRS dealers."  . 

So I informed the admin guy rugerpc that the thread by the OP , http://forums.prsguitars.com/threads/demo-of-wudtone-bridge-versus-stock.16387/page-2#post-243825 was not advertising or spam, it was simply one of your own PRS community, enthusiasts review of the outcome of an upgrade to his PRS and that the OP's response to removing it was " That is disappointing. I don't see them pulling threads referencing other manufacturers' pickups." blah blah 

I was then informed I was trolling for that and that was the end of the matter etc.

Perhaps you guys should get on there and encourage folks to participate somewhere like here where it is a tad more open minded to contribution and respectful to members regardless of subject matter.  

 cheers 

DefaultM

To be fair it probably does make it look a bit like it was an advert when a member posts it and then when it's removed the product owner queries them.

andypwudtone

Adamski said:

 sustain has been excellent. 

 Seems weird that Paul wouldn't have tried something similar though considering his somewhat obsessive nature to improving his guitars. 

@Adamski , I understand your feelings and thoughts about your guitars and Paul Reed Smith is well marketed as obsessive, however,  the differences Steve is relating to, after having gigged with the Wudtone PRS DD for a considerable period are not just about sustain, although that is also improved. Sustain is often quoted as "the" measure of guitar goodness, especially in PRS land etc. The stock bridges on a PRS have excellent sustain ( as will be the case with brass metal used). you can hear that in this video  

The major differences and real benefits to the guitar player's sound, tone, playing experience ( and what Paul Reed Smith hasn't and will never deliver with a brass / floating bridge strategy as used since the early 80's) are changes to the dynamic efficiency, detail and clarity which lead such comments as 

" Dynamics: for whatever reason, I do seem to be playing with more right-hand variation than before. The bridge seems to bring that out of me as a player. Playing lightly still manages to let the guitar ring, but just at a lower volume. Dig in, and it responds as you’d expect from a hardtail. In fact, the dynamics just feel more “hardtail” to me."  

or in Steve's words  

 "So much more 'sound' is generated by the new bridge that I have found I need to turn down the gain a bit on my amp! My usually non-complimentary band mates (only joking guys!) commented 'what's different with that guitar? It sounds HUGE!' ... notes seemed to jump out the harder I 'dig in',  " 

and the non subjective evidence in the review of the prs forum which included " perhaps less subjective: using my main lead patch, I could almost always get a note or two to feed back, especially the first G on the second string. That also corresponded to a midrange bump that I thought I was hearing, or hearing as a deficit of other midrange. With the Wudtone bridge, I get feedback in those same places (probably a guitar resonance), but I also am getting feedback in a lot more places. And on my ODS clone and the AxeFX Dumble patch I made, both of them seem to have more places on the fretboard that slip into that “note flip” territory where a note starts feeding back at the octave up, or another sweet harmonic. "

so this is not a slight change to the tone or slight improvement in sustain. The Wudtone PRS DD offers a huge boost in dynamic efficiency and major transformation in the dynamic responses of a PRS guitar and one which will actually change the dynamic of your guitar playing. If you like the current PRS  compressed guitar signal for use in pedals etc , this may not be for you. But if you want to really hear your playing at a different level ( and the real signature tone your PRS is capable of  ) then it most certainly is. 

On the Paul Reed Smith note, yes it is weird isn't it. Here are my thoughts, cemented having seen the behaviour on their forum recently. You can't keep brainwashing folks ( as well as obviously trying to censor content off the internet that proves otherwise) with as many mythical rules of tone, to make you look obsessive as you like, forever. If you overlooked the 1st rule of dynamics, back in the 80's when everyone else ( inc Fender) was patenting floating bridges that deliver poor dynamic response , you never have and are never going to deliver to guitarists, what this bridge technology can and is delivering. This is now being proved with every sale, every review, every PRS owner now being delighted one after another. kind regards 

andypwudtone

DefaultM said:

To be fair it probably does make it look a bit like it was an advert when a member posts it and then when it's removed the product owner queries them.

for the record , it was removed before I queried it 

underdog

So you post there like you do here? Because if your tone is the same I can probably spot the issue.

Most threads you start are nothing but advertisements for your products, even this thread you used to post an ad for your product while complaining about another forum.

blueskunk

Damn, wudtone get no love ?

John_P

It is their forum so the rules are whatever they say - it might be nicer if it was a bit more open but I can see why a PRS forum doesn't want non PRS products being plugged. I see you point about other pickups etc but it's right to be inconsistent just like its up to the mods here what they choose to allow.

Have you approached PRS about your trem or just posted ads for it? It would be interesting to see what they think and might be a better approach - with respect I can see how your posts come across as a bit spammy and another more direct approach might work better.

monquixote

Wrong section moved