Muffroom Cloud will be changing its name as of 1 Sept.

Gassage

TimmyO said:

Gassage;995472" said:

ThorpyFX said:

The  name was suggested by a certain @Gassage and its a corker so I'm very happy. I can't reveal it yet...... all in good time.

Intriguing.

I'd love it if the intricacies of what's enforceable or not meant that you could then market it as " : Like a Muff only way better" lol

An arse?

TimmyO

The temptation tag annoying forumites in response is enormous, but I shall observe Rule 1 ;-) 

Evilmags

Love the hypocrisy of EHX. The soulfood is a blatant Klon clone for starters.

crunchman

Evilmags said:

Love the hypocrisy of EHX. The soulfood is a blatant Klon clone for starters.

True but legally it's a different issue as it does not contain the word Klon or Centaur in the name.  Thorpy will still be able to market his pedal in the same way as EHX market the Soul Food, where everyone knows what it's inspired by.  It's the same with Wampler and the Tumnus.  Everyone knows what it is, but there is nothing Bill Finnegan could do about it.  You can't patent the actual  pedal circuits because there is nothing original in them.  You can trademark the name - which is what EHX have done.  What they haven't done is trademarked the four letter word Muff on it's own.

I don't like what they are doing, and I'm not sure that they could make it stand up in court, but as Thorpy said, it would cost huge amounts of money in court, and EHX would file in their home state, which might be inclined to rule in their favour, whatever the legal merits of the case.

It's not worth the complexity, but it would have been interesting to see what EHX would have done if it was sold under a different name in the US, but continued to be sold under the original name here.  You might need to create a US specific website as well, so US buyers would be directed there.  At that point I can't see how you are infringing their US trademarks.  Would they be willling go to court in the UK over it?

ElectroDan

It looks like they may have shot themselves in the foot anyway with all the guys here saying they'll never buy an EHX pedal again.

Nobody in the world would've confused the Muffroom Cloud with a Muff.

kjdowd

In all of this we are ignoring the fact that they are asserting - in I imagine a reasonably po faced manner - rights over a deeply, deeply childish name. Were it not for the deleterious effect on Thorpy's wallet and sanity, it would have been great to hear that in court!

Drew_TNBD

FWIW, I will be buying EHX gear again. So if anyone has a really vintage Small Stone that they just cannot bear to keep in their posession after all this, flog it me for a bargain bucket price please!

... nah didnae think so

TimmyO

I've never met an EHX pedal that wasn't either noisy, faulty, troublesome to power or just a bit meh. Never kept any long.

ThorpyFX

Drew_fx said:

FWIW, I will be buying EHX gear again. So if anyone has a really vintage Small Stone that they just cannot bear to keep in their posession after all this, flog it me for a bargain bucket price please!

... nah didnae think so

i have a pedal coming out called the tiny pebble....... (jokes)

randomhandclaps

ElectroDan said:

Nobody in the world would've confused the Muffroom Cloud with a Muff.

But in fairness to EHX and their heritage, money pumped into R&D and the appeal of their products and offshoots due to associated acts, was there any point where you wondered what a Muffroom Cloud was?  Even if you or EHX were uncertain you could have referred to the advertising and video that describes it as a "Muff without the flaws!".

The fact that there are so many muff variants or clones about clearly goes to show that EHX aren't out to crush the small business, just protect their name and stop people using a close, possibly cofusing name to run their product down in their advertising....  But hey, the more compelling story is that EHX are the devil incarnate of course.

Jeremiah

I know you've already decided what the new name will be, but my suggestion would have been "Big Miff."

UnclePsychosis

I'm with @randomhandclaps on this one I'm afraid. Big companies bullying little ones with expensive legal costs isn't cool, but on the other hand I can't really blame them for trying to protect what is, at the end of the day, their IP and their product.

 For what its worth, I think Thorpy's Muffroom Cloud sounds incredible and I'd love to own one. I just don't think the name was very wise.

Jalapeno

randomhandclaps said:

But in fairness to EHX and their heritage, money pumped into R&D

The Muff range has to be 40yrs old ! (Or were you being ironic)  I was using a Little Big Muff Pi when I was a teenager, and I'm nearly 60 now !!!!! I was forever having to resolder connectors - they were shittily put together then, and still are today.

Strat_a_tat_tat

Jalapeno said:

randomhandclaps said:

But in fairness to EHX and their heritage, money pumped into R&D

The Muff range has to be 40yrs old ! (Or were you being ironic)  I was using a Little Big Muff Pi when I was a teenager, and I'm nearly 60 now !!!!! I was forever having to resolder connectors - they were shittily put together then, and still are today.

Does that make today's product 'Vintage Correct'?  I feel some marketing-ness coming on!

Strat_a_tat_tat

ThorpyFX said:

i have a pedal coming out called the tiny pebble....... (jokes)

Surely you mean the ... Petite Pebble.

ElectroDan

EHX might have been better off leaving it, in the hope that people unable to stretch to the asking price of the Thorpy would check out the original.

randomhandclaps

Jalapeno said:

randomhandclaps said:

But in fairness to EHX and their heritage, money pumped into R&D

The Muff range has to be 40yrs old ! (Or were you being ironic) 

Why would I be being ironic?  The fact it is actually around 45 year old just reiterates my point.  I am fully aware of the history of the Big Muff and it was EHX's development.  I stated earlier in the thread that the build quality and quality control particularly leaves a lot to be desired, but they cater for a market.  Is the Muffroom Cloud better built?  Undoubtedly, but at three times the price you would expect so, so really that point is completely irrelevant to their case.

The point about their heritage is easy to demonstrate.  Try and find a demo of most Muff clones or variants that do not mention Gilmour, Jack White, Smashing Pumpkins etc. all famously using Electro Harmonix gear.  Virtually all demoes talk about 'nailing a tone' referring to a famous tone that came from an EHX pedal.

My really, really blunt take on this is quite simply this - Like it or not the origins of the circuit and the history of the name belong to Electro Harmonix.  The size of Electro Harmonix or the quality of their stuff is completely irrelevant.  For those who say "Big business attacking small business, yada, yada, yada." I would be curious to see the reaction when a Gunshot inevitably arrives in JHS's workshop and they bring out their version.  That is always has the gear business has worked.

I have seen a fair few of Thorpy pedals, both clones from wiring pedalboards and the Gunshot and Muffroom Cloud via Gassage and they are always immaculately well build.  Without going into massive details of circuit etc. the Muffroom Cloud in itself isn't a revolutionary product or ground breaking idea, rather a well executed concept. 

Had the choice be to choose a completely random name then this situation would not have arose at all but equally it would have been harder to make people aware that for those on a muff search that this was a contender.  It was a marketing risk that ultimate could have been shot in the arse before it even began by EHX but fortunately it went unchallenged for long enough to get enough exposure for IMO the future name to be irrelevant.  On top of this I think the "Like a Muff without the flaws" marketing approach was a mistake, unless you were looking to piss them off and had the same approach been taken in comparing to a smaller builder there would be flame wars on the internet about a lack of etiquette.

I don't believe this is a tale of corporate bullying but rather a tale of either a naïve or genius marketing approach which has got a quality product noticed so ultimately was a success. 

If Electro Harmonix had never existed then neither would the Muffroom Cloud.  If Electro Harmonix had not made the Big Muff a household name amongst guitarists then many more people would have stumbled across the Muffroom Cloud and gone "What the fuck is that?" and maybe never have tried it.   As it happens THANKS to Electro Harmonix people can have a more flexible and better built version of a product that they have spent years pushing.

I know this kind of reason doesn't sit with the sycophantic pitch forkery that seems to overtake reason here, but it's pretty hard to argue anything else.  If you do however want to then it can all be summed up by starting with this simple question -

If this is big boys bullying little boys then it can all be summed up in one simple question - How much has Thorpy FX profited Electro Harmonix's efforts and how much Electro Harmonix profited from Thorpy FX's effort?

For me with regards to the Muffroom Cloud in particular, rather than "Boo, boycott Electro Harmonix!", people should be wishing Electro Harmonix and Thorpy FX the best of success because thanks to both of their efforts you have the availability of a great product.

Useful_Idiot

This could be the beginning of a prolonged, innuendo laced, Cold War inspired marketing campaign. I can't wait for ThorpyFX's take on  the Russian Pi variant, simply called WMD. Filth!

Yep, long time lurker who couldn't resist.

hubobulous

Not going to quote the post cos its long, but I fully agree with @randomhandclaps. Thorpy's product is excellent, but EHX have just protected what's theirs. Thorpy will continue to make great products and a name change really is neither here nor there at this stage.

TimmyO

randomhandclaps said:

Jalapeno said:

randomhandclaps said:

But in fairness to EHX and their heritage, money pumped into R&D

The Muff range has to be 40yrs old ! (Or were you being ironic) 

Why would I be being ironic?  The fact it is actually around 45 year old just reiterates my point.  I am fully aware of the history of the Big Muff and it was EHX's development.  I stated earlier in the thread that the build quality and quality control particularly leaves a lot to be desired, but they cater for a market.  Is the Muffroom Cloud better built?  Undoubtedly, but at three times the price you would expect so, so really that point is completely irrelevant to their case.

The point about their heritage is easy to demonstrate.  Try and find a demo of most Muff clones or variants that do not mention Gilmour, Jack White, Smashing Pumpkins etc. all famously using Electro Harmonix gear.  Virtually all demoes talk about 'nailing a tone' referring to a famous tone that came from an EHX pedal.

My really, really blunt take on this is quite simply this - Like it or not the origins of the circuit and the history of the name belong to Electro Harmonix.  The size of Electro Harmonix or the quality of their stuff is completely irrelevant.  For those who say "Big business attacking small business, yada, yada, yada." I would be curious to see the reaction when a Gunshot inevitably arrives in JHS's workshop and they bring out their version.  That is always has the gear business has worked.

I have seen a fair few of Thorpy pedals, both clones from wiring pedalboards and the Gunshot and Muffroom Cloud via Gassage and they are always immaculately well build.  Without going into massive details of circuit etc. the Muffroom Cloud in itself isn't a revolutionary product or ground breaking idea, rather a well executed concept. 

Had the choice be to choose a completely random name then this situation would not have arose at all but equally it would have been harder to make people aware that for those on a muff search that this was a contender.  It was a marketing risk that ultimate could have been shot in the arse before it even began by EHX but fortunately it went unchallenged for long enough to get enough exposure for IMO the future name to be irrelevant.  On top of this I think the "Like a Muff without the flaws" marketing approach was a mistake, unless you were looking to piss them off and had the same approach been taken in comparing to a smaller builder there would be flame wars on the internet about a lack of etiquette.

I don't believe this is a tale of corporate bullying but rather a tale of either a naïve or genius marketing approach which has got a quality product noticed so ultimately was a success. 

If Electro Harmonix had never existed then neither would the Muffroom Cloud.  If Electro Harmonix had not made the Big Muff a household name amongst guitarists then many more people would have stumbled across the Muffroom Cloud and gone "What the fuck is that?" and maybe never have tried it.   As it happens THANKS to Electro Harmonix people can have a more flexible and better built version of a product that they have spent years pushing.

I know this kind of reason doesn't sit with the sycophantic pitch forkery that seems to overtake reason here, but it's pretty hard to argue anything else.  If you do however want to then it can all be summed up by starting with this simple question -

If this is big boys bullying little boys then it can all be summed up in one simple question - How much has Thorpy FX profited Electro Harmonix's efforts and how much Electro Harmonix profited from Thorpy FX's effort?

For me with regards to the Muffroom Cloud in particular, rather than "Boo, boycott Electro Harmonix!", people should be wishing Electro Harmonix and Thorpy FX the best of success because thanks to both of their efforts you have the availability of a great product.

blah blah blah.

I fucking hate Big Muffs. Really really dislike every one I have tried. Only Fuzz I ever liked was the Tonebender MkII

I stumbled across the MC because I like watching The Pedal Show. What I heard I liked. I tried it. I liked it more. I bought it.

I'll just be sycophanting over here with my pitch fork though. I've run out of opinions on the rest of my life by the way so when you're ready can I have my next one. <rolls eyes>