How to practise

Barney

Just wondering how everybody is practising and how they are getting best results..

Its interesting to see on youtube and things that young kids 7 or 8 are doing amazing things ..how do they get to that level in such a short time.?

I know when younger you can absorb much more and quicker..

Just thought it would be a interesting disscusion because we all spend lot of time practising/playing with little or no improvement ....where as some can get really good in months..

So are we practising the right things ..or spending enought time on one thing before moving on ?

Plectrum

I just play the music I enjoy.

tabbycat

hey barney, a very wise (classical) musician once told me there are two ways to practice:

practice until you can get it right.

practice until you can't get it wrong.

choose whichever best suits your purposes.

Barney

tabbycat;1056810" said:

hey barney, a very wise (classical) musician once told me there are two ways to practice:



practice until you can get it right.



practice until you can't get it wrong.



choose whichever best suits your purposes.

Very wise words and i feel its got to be the second option

TheBlueWolf

I don't bother much these days with scales, technical exercises etc as that was pretty much all I got good at.

Lately I've been spending a lot of time working on songs by my favourite bands, writing my own stuff and ear training.

allen

I've got to be honest, I hardly ever practice properly and waste most of my time plonking out the same old crap I already know.

About a year ago I wanted to learn the turnaround on pride and joy and actually worked on it. I was quite surprised that I made a lot of progress doing 10 minutes a day for 3 days.

And come to think of it I've been learning the fretboard using a method from some youtube video and i've actually made some progress in a about 5 minutes per day over a few days.

I really hate proper practice, but it actually works when you really knuckle down.

As to the question of what works (to make you a 'good' guitar player) I wish I knew. 

Justinguitar says split your practice regime into 4:

1. Increase repertoire i.e. just learn songs (I tend to just learn intros or solos)

2. Theory and technique exercises - learning chords/scales etc.

3. Transcribing

4. Just having fun and making noise

I quite like that list and I probably do a bit off all of them.

jellyroll

I tend to practice by coming to this forum,watching the arguments and drooling over the for sale ads. My playing doesn't seem to be improving but I do know a whole lot more about used prices for tubescreamers.

octatonic

Break what you are trying to do down to its constituent parts.

Practice those parts in isolation until they are into muscle memory.

Piece the parts together.

DavusPG

I'm trying to breakdown why it is that I can't play certain things more than I ever have before - so zeroing in on which movement or technique it is that's letting me down and working on fixing that. 

As others on here have said I'm also resisting the urge to try and play things full speed before I'm able to and instead practising them slowly until I can consistently play them right. I've been surprised at how quickly some things have clicked and got quicker.

It's definitely a muscle memory thing. When I play solos now that I've been practising for a couple of years, it feels as though I have so much more time as I'm playing them - presumably because my fingers know where they're going and it's just so well drilled that I'm never having to think about what comes next.

As for rigid practice learning scales and theory I am beyond crap - I've tried to learn them all so many times. Not so much of a problem playing covers but now Im trying to come up with my own things I appreciate that trying to play music without some musical knowledge is a but like trying to navigate somewhere with no map or directions. Looking at it in those terms, it's no wonder I quickly get "lost" and hit bum notes.

Sporky

Barney said:

I know when younger you can absorb much more and quicker..

I'm not sure that's true - it's just that when you're young you have more time devoted to learning.

Maynehead

Depends if you just want to know how to play songs or know how to play the guitar.

Those kids on the internet probably can play a couple of songs perfectly with their eyes closed but tell them to improvise a 16 bar solo based on the E harmonic minor scale and I wonder how they'd do...

After going through the process pretty much the wrong way, if I were to start again now I'd make sure that I:

1. Learn the notes on the fretboard

2. Learn a couple of scale shapes that are most often used in the music I play

3. Learn how to join up those shapes up and down the fretboard, in different keys

After you get the basics sorted you will find that learning songs suddenly becomes a lot easier, and you will understand why the chords and the lead parts are constructed in the way they are, rather than blindly following tabs and memorizing finger positions.

Barney

octatonic;1118155" said:

Break what you are trying to do down to its constituent parts.Practice those parts in isolation until they are into muscle memory.Piece the parts together.

This is basically my practise routine ...with lots of repetition ....im tending to spend more time perfecting something before moving on to the next thing and not really nailing it

octatonic

Sporky said:

Barney said:

I know when younger you can absorb much more and quicker..

I'm not sure that's true - it's just that when you're young you have more time devoted to learning.

The human brain is more elastic when it is young, but younger people tend to not be able to self-learn as effectively- it can be a question of focus and discipline.

I'm just describing trends of course- you get some very committed and disciplined younger people.

As with everything, you can overcome any penalty with effort.

octatonic

Barney said:

octatonic;1118155" said:

Break what you are trying to do down to its constituent parts.Practice those parts in isolation until they are into muscle memory.Piece the parts together.

This is basically my practise routine ...with lots of repetition ....im tending to spend more time perfecting something before moving on to the next thing and not really nailing it

The thing to remember in this process is you will probably will get much more benefit from doing something 5 times a day for 5-10 mins (so 25-50 mins total) than you will doing it for 100 mins in one block of time.

It isn't just the *doing* it that matters- it seems to help much more if you pick it up and put it down often.

For instance, I'm working on the 'Fool in the Rain' drum beat at the moment.

I play it in blocks of no more than 5-10 mins- sometimes I might just play 4 bars of it, then move onto something else.

The first few times I was doing it I was making mistakes, so I slowed it down until I could play it without making mistakes.

Hitting it  few times a day, in small blocks works really great because your mind has to adapt to this new situation each time.

Barney

octatonic;1118246" said:

Barney said:

octatonic;1118155" said:Break what you are trying to do down to its constituent parts.Practice those parts in isolation until they are into muscle memory.Piece the parts together.

This is basically my practise routine ...with lots of repetition ....im tending to spend more time perfecting something before moving on to the next thing and not really nailing it










The thing to remember in this process is you will probably will get much more benefit from doing something 5 times a day for 5-10 mins (so 25-50 mins total) than you will doing it for 100 mins in one block of time.It isn't just the *doing* it that matters- it seems to help much more if you pick it up and put it down often.

For instance, I'm working on the 'Fool in the Rain' drum beat at the moment.I play it in blocks of no more than 5-10 mins- sometimes I might just play 4 bars of it, then move onto something else.The first few times I was doing it I was making mistakes, so I slowed it down until I could play it without making mistakes.

Hitting it  few times a day, in small blocks works really great because your mind has to adapt to this new situation each time.

Great info...^

entee

I have been 'playing' guitar for 30+ years now and taught myself by listening to vinyl over and over again, chord after chord. I didn't know what notes I was playing nor do I now.  I thought it about time I learnt the fundamentals, but why?  Playing the way I do has been fine all this time, why try to change it now. I don't know scales and don't play lead, so as far as practice goes, I play the stuff I write, or whilst fiddling about I might find a chord sequence that sounds right or unusual and then practice that.

That probably horrifies the proper guitarists here, but it works... 

My guitars sit on the wall in my living room where my amp also resides, so I find it helps a lot to just pick one from the wall and play for 5 minutes or so, as it is no hassle to set up - I would certainly practice less if it wasn't all to hand

paul_c2

I'm probably going to invite disagreements for this but I think pretty much all the above (with the exception of Barney and octatonic) illustrates the wrong way to practice. Unless you have a good teacher, you simply won't realise you're doing something wrong and will blindingly commit that "wrong" technique to muscle memory if you practice. Also you'll tend to practice the things you enjoy and not the things you don't. You'll enjoy yourself, but will eventually build a brick wall that will limit your ability through incorrect technique. Or come across a situation you "can't cope" with.

A good teacher would spot the bad habits early, correct them, find your weak areas, devise/suggest pieces or exercises to improve them and generally "level up" the approach to everything making what you can do, easier; and making what you can't currently do possible.



Having said all of that, I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with the approach!!! You're enjoying yourself, like the sound it makes, having fun, etc If you're happy with this and content with your ability level there's no real issue.

edenfield99

Some of this has been said before and it obviously depends on what type of music you play and what you want to get out of guitar playing but for me...

Practice in short blocks and take regular breaks.

When learning a song learn a bar at a time and don't move on to the next until you have it down. Start off at a slow tempo but play "loud" (not amp volume loud but play with balls as Stefan Grossman would say)

Jam/play along to jam tracks/drum patterns etc. and put into practice what I have learnt.

I'm not great on theory but I try to understand what I'm learning (i.e. what notes are in the lick, why do they work over the chord) so I'm not just playing these things blind.

Try to have fun and not get caught up with "practising" all the time. In a way I think this is one of the most important things, sometimes I don't feel like playing because it starts to feel like work, especially if I'm struggling with a difficult piece. At these times I try to just grab a guitar and strum simple songs or play along to my favourite albums and try to remember why I play guitar in the first place.

I don't necessarily agree with a teacher being essential,  to a certain degree there is no right and wrong, there are plenty of great guitar players who don't play "by the book" and they're doing OK. Some styles need this more than others but it wouldn't hurt for any of them. I've been to a few workshops and my mate is a guitar teacher and I've learned a lot from him in an informal setting but I don't think I'm missing much not having a teacher.  (@paul_c2 you're not a guitar teacher are you? ). 

paul_c2

edenfield99 said:

  (@paul_c2 you're not a guitar teacher are you? ). 

Nope, but I've had formal lessons in the past, for a little while. I am mainly self-taught though (at bass guitar). When I had lessons the teacher forced me to try things I put off, and pointed out minor errors in technique. On later reflection, it was a good call. So I'd recommend lessons if you can. Unfortunately, I can't afford them at the moment! Also unfortunately, there's good and bad teachers out there - I started on guitar and had a poor teacher, but on bass the teacher was good.

Barney

A thing iv noticed of my own playing / practise is that am very self critical ....i will play over backing tracks and record it then listen back and try and pinpoint things that are lacking in my playing some things are very obvious...i will then work on that aspect of my playing
On the other hand i will listen to parts i like as well...some of them will be the things i least expected and didnt come across that way in practise ...so i work on them as well

Also when i practise i play things i cant do until i can with ease ...its all to easy to go over the same thing over and over

I suppose part of the original post was about that ....how long do we go over something until it isnt actually making us any better...cos its learned...

When should we be moving on to another subject ...and iff we do before we have the things we are working on nailed ...will they just be forgotten and not used ....

Its just something i have been thinking for a while ...
For example ...something like maybe c maj scale in all positions maybe spent 6 weeks on it ...iff we move onto something else before its truly learned will we loose a lot of it ....would them 6 weeks been a bit of a waste ..maybe iff another 6 weeks had been spent it would have been learned and we would be ready to move on to another subject...and the major scale would be part of us ...

Just thinking out loud really

Sporky

paul_c2 said:

A good teacher would spot the bad habits early, correct them, find your weak areas, devise/suggest pieces or exercises to improve them and generally "level up" the approach to everything making what you can do, easier; and making what you can't currently do possible.

Agreed, having had two awful teachers, one mediocre one and now an excellent one.

My cello teacher probably spends more time on my posture and getting me to relax my hands and shoulders than on anything else, and it's helping enormously - I don't normally notice that I'm tense or at the wrong angle very quickly but I'm getting better at spotting it, and once that's under control everything else is easier.