Some bands, and why you need a decent sound guy.

Modulus_Amps

That doesn't sound that bad, I can hear everything in the band, but that might be because you all know where and how to play in your own pocket though, love the fact that the vocals can be heard, pet hate of mine is crappy vocals lost in the mix

ICBM

Placidcasual79 said:

Problem is he doesn't have a clue. We are plagued by feedback at the gigs he does (for some reasons in-between songs usually).

Probably because he's using compression - either too much, or on too much of the mix at once. When the music level goes down between songs the gain will then rise, causing feedback.

In general putting any compression on live mics is a bad idea, unless you have very good kit and know how to use it. If you don't, don't. Limiting can be very useful, and some compressors can be used as limiters (or at least, more like limiters than compressors), but they are not really the same thing.

Placidcasual79 said:

and doesn't seem to realise he needs to be in front of the band to hear the mix.

Then he's failed to understand the single most important thing about sound engineering. The detail of how you get there isn't important, and there are many different ways that work from the totally old-school all-backline, to the modern low stage levels and IEMs, but none of it is any good if you don't know what the audience are hearing.

nick79

Kind of a different experience from me..

We played a small festival last weekend, soundcheck was literally 30 seconds before we had to start the set. Didn't get a chance to dial in my amp and from where i was standing the whole thing sounded shit. Which affected my playing, just couldn't get into it. 

But speaking to people who were in the crowd afterwards, and watching back some vids (shot on mobile phones, but good enough) the sound of the whole band was actually pretty decent, even my guitar tone. Wish i had taken the oppurtunity to go out front while playing and had a listen, i think it would have turned the gig around for me. 

I'll know for the next festival to have my amp controls set up somewhere near close, just wasn't expecting to be rushed so much.

koneguitarist

p90fool said:

I'm in Cerne Abbas for a week or so from 1st of June, let me know if you're gigging and I might get a chance to come and say hi.

at present the only gig we have is the Saturday night 4th June at The Lord Nelson Inn (good food and ales) in Norton Sub Hamden, which might be a bit far, about 20miles.

Danny1969

@Placidcasual79

The trouble is anyone good at doing live sound ain't gonna work for £10. It's a lot of work and it's generally the same or longer hours than the band. The bands I work with generally pay from £40 to £130 for sound and that's just to mix, not supply PA and stuff (although some guys do bring their own preferred desk) 

In a situation like yours I would buy something modest but digital like a A&H QU or Mackie DL1608 desk, take the time to setup everybody's EQ and wedge monitor \ IEM feeds and then save the patch as your basic good to go starting point. Then you just have someone doing basic stuff like controlling the main vocal level, pushing up instruments for solo's, killing effects between songs etc from an Ipad .... because as you say you can't mix it properly if your not out front. Soundcheck should then be quick and painless and the mix should be 80% there from the off. 

One band I work i 

Placidcasual79

Danny1969 said:

He didn't even want the £10 - we insisted on giving him that. I think he just likes being involved - he is a bit like that guy in your local with an opinion on everything but no real friends. I suspect he might be renting the equipment he brings at a loss!!! 

Thanks Danny - That seems like a good idea - i hadn't considered something digital where I could save a sort of basic template to use as a starting point. I'll have a look at the gear you mention. Again - cheers. 

ICBM

It's not just amateurs. Last night I went to a medium-sized gig in a proper venue with a professional-quality PA and sound engineer, and the mix was unforgivably bad - especially considering the set-up was very simple… three vocals, one acoustic guitar, one electric guitar, one bass, and a very small drum kit used in the second half only, at 'polite' volume.

The vocals were nasally, slightly dirty and muddy-sounding when the singer naturally has a very pure clear voice, the electric guitar was slightly too loud and far too middy, and the bass was too quiet and not deep enough. It did marginally improve when the electric guitarist switched to acoustic, and better again when the drums were in - possibly just because the band were playing slightly louder on stage - but it was never what I would call good.

It was almost bad enough to ruin a great performance by one of my favourite artists - it never quite became possible to ignore it completely and just enjoy the music. That just shouldn't happen with decent modern PA equipment and with a very easy set-up at sensible volume.

harpo

Get some upcoming events on yr Facebook page though mate ......it looks like you don't have any.

koneguitarist

Played twice this weekend, got two next weekend, I don't do FB will ask band about it.

impmann

We did a festival once where the "engineer" was so bad, our soundman pushed him off the desk and took over, reset the entire FOH and Stage monitors, set levels and mixed it on the fly over one song - it sounded great after that. He had to forcibly restrain the "engineer" from fucking it all back up again... we then realised that he was doing it deliberately, as he was part of the crew for the headline band.

Frankly if you view music as a competition then you are a fucktard - and point scoring by making other bands sound bad is being tossers of the lowest order. Secondly if your band is so bad that they need to sabbotage the sound of all the other bands then perhaps your efforts would be better spent learning to play better.

We didn't stay for the headliners set...

maltingsaudio

Messing up a bands sound deliberately is unforgiveable,and unproffessional ( there are much more subtle ways of getting back at a band that pisses you off without ruining a perfromance)  

The problem I find is there are so many students coming out of college now doing it "for experience" and gigs suffer accordingly. Now you have to learn somewhere and although the theory of live sound can be taught in a class room it  takes a lot of gigs to get the experience needed. Unfortunately a lot of promoters only look at the bottom right hand corner and when someone says I can do it I've been to college and I'm cheap or free the inevitable train crash happens.

There are more and more events happening where this is the case, when we quote for them we're told Oh your too expensive thats because we're paying proper people to do the job!

Rant over!

koneguitarist

I agree Doug, I am doing an event on June 18th for the Queens birthday party in Sherborne. As a radio station who was organising all the bands and stuff, I refused to partake until a pro sound system and engineer. Was contracted to do the job.

maltingsaudio

They didn't call me!

koneguitarist

Nope, I was not involved with who they looked at, but quite happy with outcome as I have worked with him before.