Notes or Intervals

Axe_meister

I was mucking around with my daughter (a far better musician than me, Grade 8 violin, grade 6 Piano, grade 5 flute just doing A level music). So we where mucking about with a standard blues progression, she was on violin, so I suggested playing a minor 3rd over the major chords dropping 2nd and the 6th.

She looked at me with a blank face. So I then said Drop the B, play C instead of C# and drop the F#. And boom she could improvise over the chord progression.

Now she is classically trained in reading the dots and knows where every note is on the instrument she picks up but doesn't think in intervals.

Now when I get to jam with other, if somebody shouts out a note to play I have to fumble around working out where that note is, but if they should out the interval (and I know the key) I can find it immediatly.

So are you a note player or an interval player? Depending on what type you are, do you read music or have you learnt by ear.

EricTheWeary

To some extent it's about playing guitar as it has moveable shapes. So a C major scale can be the same to play as F# major just starting on a different fret. Once you know a moveable shape you can access it in another ten(?) keys straight away so guitarists may be less inclined to think in notes. By contrast when my eldest son did clarinet he was learning basically note by note, assembling the notes into sequences came later.

stickyfiddle

Most classical players can barely improvise and can't usually play by ear. 

I'm middling on notes vs intervals tbh. Probably more towards intervals on guitar, but would be notes on everything else (piano, sax)

Modulus_Amps

shapes/position - then notes - then intervals

depends what you are trying to communicate though

musteatbrain

This happens when I play guitar and my wife plays piano or violin.

She's a good level on both, but can't play by ear or improvise. Fantastic at sight reading though like most classical musicians

octatonic

I'm pretty good at both- they are different disciplines.

tone1

I'm definitely a .....Tab player

BigLicks67

I'd imagine a good classical player should be able to improvise and spot intervals. I once watched a programme where they tested Vanessa Mae's ability to spot intervals and then checked this against a cross section of Joe public and she was shown to have a much higher developed sense to the point of spotting micro tones in difference.

Also for improvisation, take Ron Carter he was a trained classical cellist struggled to get work and ended up becoming famous as a Jazz Double Bassist. 

Danny1969

I always think in intervals, I hear music in intervals and it means I can play most stuff straight off the bat unless it's harmonically complex like jazz. 

Transposition of key is just maths intervals, if we were playing Am, C and D and the keys too low then up to play it in Bm would be Bm, D and E etc. Some songs on guitar that rely on open strings can be a bugger to transpose but interval wise you can physically see them on the guitar 

Sporky

stickyfiddle said:

Most classical players can barely improvise and can't usually play by ear. 

I think that's a popular myth that guitarists tell themselves so they feel better about not being able to read proper sheet music.

GuyBoden

If you play with trained musicians; double bass, sax, pianist etc, unfortunately, not knowing the notes on your instrument makes you seem incompetent and a not very serious musician. Also, it's a real embarrassment if you play with professional bands that read from music scores. Thankfully, most guitarists that have studied at music colleges know the notes on their instruments very well.

GuyBoden

Sporky said:

stickyfiddle said:

Most classical players can barely improvise and can't usually play by ear. 

I think that's a popular myth that guitarists tell themselves so they feel better about not being able to read proper sheet music.

Most guitarists can barely improvise, they just play the same old licks again and again and again, thinking they're improvising.....

Danny1969

I play in a band with a classical musician who can sight read with amazing speed, the guy is an incredible musician who regularly plays the Albert Hall and other prestigious venues. I have a much better ear though and can work out a song a lot faster because it is a different skills set. A classical musician doesn't need a good ear, just the ability to read the dots which is a superb and difficult skill within it's self granted. 

Ideally we would all be able to do both. One thing I do notice is today's tab happy kids have a shit ear for intervals because they aren't working anything out themselves 

BigLicks67

Danny1969 said:

A classical musician doesn't need a good ear, just the ability to read the dots which is a superb and difficult skill within it's self granted. 

Surely, if you are playing a violin, cello or other non fretted instrument then a good ear would be essential otherwise your intonation is likely to be off. I would suggest any musician needs a good ear regardless of style. 

TheBlueWolf

I started out relying on playing by ear and still do today so intervals for me too.

I really should stop procrastinating and learn to sight read at some point

ArchtopDave

Mainly notes, though I can also think in intervals. I can also read music, soething that I think is a very valuable skill to have.

Phil_aka_Pip

either, but neither as good as I would like - purely down to lack of use & practice.

once I tried recording some of GF Haendel's Fireworks Suite. Reading the parts in treble or bass clef was fine, then I came to some inside parts which were written with a C clef. At first it freaked me out but soon I was doing it because instead of reading the name of the note and knowing where to find that note on the instrument, I was reading the pitch difference between a note and the note next to it and playing the interval. A fair bit of it was either scale fragments (notes on line space line space etc) or arpeggios (all lines or all spaces), which made it quite easy.

Sporky

BigLicks67 said:

Surely, if you are playing a violin, cello or other non fretted instrument then a good ear would be essential otherwise your intonation is likely to be off. I would suggest any musician needs a good ear regardless of style. 

Absolutely. Also you need a good ear to keep in sync with everyone else, particularly as there can be a lot more tempo and dynamic variation in non-pop music.

Danny1969

The conductor keeps the tempo and the dynamics, your on his timing not yours. For a big competition a band will often bring in a big money conductor at £2k a week or more and the difference in the band is immense so you can see it's a whole different bag to playing by your own ear and timing, intonation aside. 

Some of the tempo and time sig  changes in some of the test pieces though are incredibly difficult and seem to make no sense to me but the conductor guides them through it. They can get through it alone but with nothing like the verve and aplomb exibited with a conductor

Roland

Sporky said:

stickyfiddle said:

Most classical players can barely improvise and can't usually play by ear. 

I think that's a popular myth that guitarists tell themselves so they feel better about not being able to read proper sheet music.

There's a lot of truth in the idea, even if guitarists do use it as an excuse. I once met one of the Abbey Road engineers who worked at the Menhuin Grappelli session. He told the story of the two of them getting their violins out of the cases. Menhuin tuned up, and played a classical piece. Grappelli improvised a variation of it, and then tuned up. Menhuin asked where he could get the sheet music for the variation. It became clear that not only could Grappelli not write it down, but that he could not even remember what he had played. When he showed what he might have played Menhuin, who was getting quite old, could not remember it. Nevertheless they produced an interesting LP, Menhuin reading from scores, and Grappelli playing whatever came into his head.

Roland

As for notes and intervals: i think in intervals, and convert to notes when I'm talking about it or writing it down.