Pub gigs - are you micing up?

vasselmeyer

I'm not sure that subs in a pub are necessary. In my last band the kick and a touch of DI'd bass went through the standard PA speakers just to give that extra little oomph. The standard 15" speakers coped fine.

DavusPG

Obviously we are new to this, but after our last gig running through our PA with 2 subs one of the recurring compliments was how awesome the bass was. It certainly had oomph!

Jalapeno

Keep reading this as "Pub Gigs - Are you mincing ?", and replying to myself  "Oh Bitch please ..."

Roland

bobblehat said:

For those who Mic everything , have you considered just going going 100% digital and forget amps altogether?

I've been digital for years, however I still run a small backline to get acoustic coupling and avoid a lifeless guitar sound. It also means that the guitar doesn't have to be so loud in the monitors

simonk

PolarityMan;1086620" said:

Id love to put more through to get better control but I think the general wisdom is that you need subs to cope with with instruments. We only have a pair of tops currently.

Most subs are only working on frequencies below 120Hz or thereabouts so you'd be fine putting guitars through tops at least.

vasselmeyer;1086622" said:

I'm not sure that subs in a pub are necessary. In my last band the kick and a touch of DI'd bass went through the standard PA speakers just to give that extra little oomph. The standard 15" speakers coped fine.

I got fed up with hefting the 25Kg+ 15's we used to use to the top of the stands so we've recently bought a pair of Yamaha DBR10's. They're 10Kg each, a third the size of our old tops, and sound great. We add in a Yamaha DXS12 sub when space and size of venue dictates. Makes for a great rig.

Danny1969

You can mic up and put drums through the smallest of speakers if you want to as long as you remove the frequencies they can't handle... There's generally no guitars in my subs as I tend to high pass guitars around 110hz ... The only things hitting the subs are kick drum and bass guitar
.
.

If your using a basic old analog desk with limited EQ you can't sculpture the EQ to suit smaller speakers though so in that case you do have to be careful as it's the frequencies that the speaker can't reproduce ...the frequencies that you can't hear which will destroy it

PolarityMan

Danny1969 said:

You can mic up and put drums through the smallest of speakers if you want to as long as you remove the frequencies they can't handle... There's generally no guitars in my subs as I tend to high pass guitars around 110hz ... The only things hitting the subs are kick drum and bass guitar
.
.

If your using a basic old analog desk with limited EQ you can't sculpture the EQ to suit smaller speakers though so in that case you do have to be careful as it's the frequencies that the speaker can't reproduce ...the frequencies that you can't hear which will destroy it

I think our are only 12s rather than 15s so there might be headroom issues but this raises an interesting question. Could you use a crossover connected to nothing as a way of protecting the speakers? Right now we're using a 4 channel behring r mixer so our options are pitiful. I've got my eye out for deals on a better desk and a second monitor for vocals at some point though.

Danny1969

Yes you can use a crossover with nothing connected to its low out to protect the high out but you might find the point is too high .... Have you any hi pass filters on your little mixer , they are generally set to high pass around 100hz

lustycourtier

Everything through pa. helps spread the sound better.

PolarityMan

Danny1969 said:

Yes you can use a crossover with nothing connected to its low out to protect the high out but you might find the point is too high .... Have you any hi pass filters on your little mixer , they are generally set to high pass around 100hz

I have bass, mid and treble and that's it. Like I said though it's definitely on my list to replace as I'd like something with A.) more than 2 mic pre amps and B.) 4 aux sends.

Placidcasual79

Mic everything no matter the venue - then you can keep the volume down on stage and get a better mix out front. 

koneguitarist

Placidcasual79 said:

Mic everything no matter the venue - then you can keep the volume down on stage and get a better mix out front. 

Depends on how loud your drummer is, if he is loud, does he need mic'ing? 

This is the biggest issue a lot of bands have, very few drummers need mic'ing in pubs, but too many mic up to create their sound, as opposed to using a PA to reinforce the sound they have. 

richardhomer

koneguitarist;1091400" said:

Depends on how loud your drummer is, if he is loud, does he need mic'ing? 

This is the biggest issue a lot of bands have, very few drummers need mic'ing in pubs, but too many mic up to create their sound, as opposed to using a PA to reinforce the sound they have. 

I must admit, I was surprised reading through the thread how many mic their drummers.

I've not gigged for years and marvel at all those who use 15-20 watt amps live.

I'm clearly out of touch.....

Danny1969

richardhomer said:

koneguitarist;1091400" said:

Depends on how loud your drummer is, if he is loud, does he need mic'ing? 

This is the biggest issue a lot of bands have, very few drummers need mic'ing in pubs, but too many mic up to create their sound, as opposed to using a PA to reinforce the sound they have. 

I must admit, I was surprised reading through the thread how many mic their drummers.

I've not gigged for years and marvel at all those who use 15-20 watt amps live.

I'm clearly out of touch.....

Things have changed a lot since I started gigging, particularly over the last 10 years.Things like  IEM's for pub gig'ers  becoming common, iPad mixing out front, small amps mic'ed up rather than big amps unmic'ed, bands playing to click, SPD samplers being triggered, auto harmonizers for vocals. All good though I think  

Regarding drums sometimes mic'ing is unnecessary from a volume point of view but if the bands on ears then it is necessary to mic to get the drums in your ears ..... I played with a louder than hell drummer on Sat but I still had his kick and mic'ed hi hat in my ears to lock in ...... with other drummers you sometimes need everything

koneguitarist

@Danny1969 I understand why you would, but that's so you can hear due to your IEM but it's not mic'ing the drums for volume, in your case if drums are loud enough, you are mic'ing not for front of house sound.

frictionfraction

Most gigging pubs nowadays are about the size of a large front room. A back line of guitar and bass amps and a drummer who plays with dynamics certainly does not need micing. In any case who has the time to do all if that? My band for the last 25 years seems to be able to just about get set up for 8:55pm. Quick sound check with singer on his radio mic out front, all get a drink and start at 9:05pm.

Roland

In a very small pub the purpose of putting as much as possible through the pa is to keep the volume down. One of the reasons I stopped using a 50w 2x12 was that it was too loud for some of our venues

Jalapeno

When drummer plays electronic all is well, PA and quiet on stage.

When he's playing real drums his psycho-therapy kicks in and it's deafening, f*cker cannot play quietly ! :x

PolarityMan

koneguitarist said:

Placidcasual79 said:

Mic everything no matter the venue - then you can keep the volume down on stage and get a better mix out front. 

Depends on how loud your drummer is, if he is loud, does he need mic'ing? 

This is the biggest issue a lot of bands have, very few drummers need mic'ing in pubs, but too many mic up to create their sound, as opposed to using a PA to reinforce the sound they have. 

It's pretty rare for a drummer to be loud and in the right way, by that I mean usually the cymbals are extremely loud, espcially in small venues where you're in close proximity in comparison to the bass and snare. Modern mixes tend to have the bass and snare levels extremely exaggerated too so a lot of poeple's idea of a natural drum sound doesnt actually sound like a drum kit.

Danny1969

PolarityMan said:

koneguitarist said:

Placidcasual79 said:

Mic everything no matter the venue - then you can keep the volume down on stage and get a better mix out front. 

Depends on how loud your drummer is, if he is loud, does he need mic'ing? 

This is the biggest issue a lot of bands have, very few drummers need mic'ing in pubs, but too many mic up to create their sound, as opposed to using a PA to reinforce the sound they have. 

It's pretty rare for a drummer to be loud and in the right way, by that I mean usually the cymbals are extremely loud, espcially in small venues where you're in close proximity in comparison to the bass and snare. Modern mixes tend to have the bass and snare levels extremely exaggerated too so a lot of poeple's idea of a natural drum sound doesnt actually sound like a drum kit.

That's very true and  what doesn't help is the fact that in a small pub the vocal mics generally are only a metre in front of the kit and actually acting as very trashy sounding drum overhead  \ room mic's ..... it's unavoidable and only the fattest of singers will keep the spill out of something like an SM58 .... in this sense we are all mic'ing up the drums ... you just don't realize until you have to mix the stems after recording it