Illegal partscasters?

Megii

Just looking at a small card that came with my recently purchased Mighty Mite neck, which states:

"This replacement neck is for a Fender(R) or Squire(R) by Fender(R) guitar or bass only.

It's Head Profile is a registered trademark of Fender(R) Musical Instruments Corporation, and Mighty Mite(R) is licensed by Fender(R)  under a quality control trademark license...."

...various other blurb, then:

"This neck is licensed as a quality approved replacement neck and may not be used to assemble NON-Fender(R) Guitars"

So I'm apparently about to do something illegal by fitting the neck to a Guitarbuild body to make my partscaster strat - I will not lose any sleep! However, it's got me thinking of some questions...

1. If I fit the neck to a genuine Fender or Squier strat, because the old one has broken, would that guitar still be considered a Fender/Squier, and am I then entitled to put a Fender logo on the headstock? And if not, i.e. the resulting guitar is not a Fender/Squier, then what's the point of having the restriction on the use of the replacement neck in the first place?

2. I have no intention of putting any Fender/Squier logo on my partscaster, or trying to pass the guitar off as either brand - so is what I'm doing really illegal?

The whole thing seems rather bizarre the more I think about it...

monquixote

I think because Mighty Mite are licensed then you can put a Fender logo on a Fender guitar with a Mighty Mite neck. 

I'm really not sure how putting it on a partscaster you don't put a Fender logo on could be construed as dodgy though.

TheOtherDennis

Coo, very tricky one that. As far as I'm aware, you're not breaking any rules so long as you're not claiming they're Fenders. The moment that you do, you're in trouble, but you'll never be there so it shouldn't be a problem.

Having said that, PRS got royally screwed over by Gibson a few years back for copying the Les Paul shape, iirc. They were clearly not trying to claim they were selling Gibbos (not with PRS on the headstock, certainly), but they still lost big time. What Gretsch did to get away with it is anyone's guess (did they settle out of court? I honestly don't know and would welcome any info...).

Having said that, there has never been a shortage of anything cheap, or even pretty bloody expensive, Strat and Tele shaped guitars on sale with all sorts of names on all sorts of headstocks, and I've never heard or seen any reports of legal action on behalf of Leo and his pals. Not to say there hasn't been any, but it's never crossed my eyeline.

EdGrip

That's because Fender has no claim on the body-shapes - only the headstocks. 

ChrisMusic

Disclaimer by Mighty Mite to keep them on the sweet side of Fender, keeps the money mill rolling. IMO (my disclaimer)  

impmann

And even then Paul Bigsby's estate may have something to say about the headstock shape...
What a load of BS about fitting it to a non Fender body. It's your property to do with what you like. As long as you don't try to pass it off as a Fender, I can't see the issue.

ICBM

Megii said:

1. If I fit the neck to a genuine Fender or Squier strat, because the old one has broken, would that guitar still be considered a Fender/Squier, and am I then entitled to put a Fender logo on the headstock? And if not, i.e. the resulting guitar is not a Fender/Squier, then what's the point of having the restriction on the use of the replacement neck in the first place?

1. No and no. It's a Fender or Squier guitar with a licenced replacement neck, but it's not a Fender. That's still OK. But putting a Fender logo on the non-Fender part is not because the neck is not a Fender product, and putting the neck on a non-Fender body is technically a trademark infringement because you have then made a non-Fender guitar with a Fender head shape.

2. I have no intention of putting any Fender/Squier logo on my partscaster, or trying to pass the guitar off as either brand - so is what I'm doing really illegal?

It's illegal, but you wont get into trouble unless you try to sell it - or most likely even if you did, although in theory you might.

It's not really complicated - basically you cannot put a Fender logo or their trademarked head shape on anything that wasn't made by them, the head shape is licensed purely for repairing or modifying Fender guitars - but part of the problem is the inconsistent attitude to enforcement. On the other hand those companies which are rigorous about it (eg Rickenbacker) generally don't get good press for it either...

Megii

Whole thing does seem daft to me I have to say - let's say I used a licensed neck to replace a broken one on a Fender strat. So that's legal, and the guitar is still considered a Fender, and I can put Fender logo on the headstock etc.... But then - what if I damage the body, and need to replace that - is it still the same guitar? (surely not?!). If not the same guitar, how can it still be a Fender, as it has not been made by Fender. If it is a Fender (a bizarre idea to me) then how is the guitar any different from one assembled from similar non-Fender parts? Either way, it's nuts basically...  8-}

Megii

ICBM said:

Megii said:

1. If I fit the neck to a genuine Fender or Squier strat, because the old one has broken, would that guitar still be considered a Fender/Squier, and am I then entitled to put a Fender logo on the headstock? And if not, i.e. the resulting guitar is not a Fender/Squier, then what's the point of having the restriction on the use of the replacement neck in the first place?

1. No and no. It's a Fender or Squier guitar with a licenced replacement neck, but it's not a Fender. That's still OK. But putting a Fender logo on the non-Fender part is not because the neck is not a Fender product, and putting the neck on a non-Fender body is technically a trademark infringement because you have then made a non-Fender guitar with a Fender head shape.

2. I have no intention of putting any Fender/Squier logo on my partscaster, or trying to pass the guitar off as either brand - so is what I'm doing really illegal?

It's illegal, but you wont get into trouble unless you try to sell it - or most likely even if you did, although in theory you might.

It's not really complicated - basically you cannot put a Fender logo or their trademarked head shape on anything that wasn't made by them, the head shape is licensed purely for repairing or modifying Fender guitars - but part of the problem is the inconsistent attitude to enforcement. On the other hand those companies which are rigorous about it (eg Rickenbacker) generally don't get good press for it either...

So...

1. I'm only allowed to use the replacement licensed neck on a Fender guitar, but I'm then not allowed to call the guitar a Fender, or identify it as such with a logo. I understand the position, but it seems bonkers!

2. Making partscasters is illegal, regardless of what logo may or may not be on the headstock. I guess that's less bonkers as a legal position, not that it bothers me at all. And surely Fender must know that a substantial number of replacement bodies/necks being sold, will not be used to replace broken parts on an originally Fender branded guitar?

Still think the whole thing's crackers!

ICBM

No, making partscasters is perfectly legal provided they don't have either the Fender logo on a non-Fender neck, or a Fender headstock shape even with a different logo (or no logo). Fender only have trademarks on their logo and the head shape, so any other combination is legal. You can legally build a partscaster with a genuine Fender neck and logo, but still not sell it as a Fender guitar.

Of course Fender know - they're happy to take the money .

monquixote

It's possible they don't care, but they put the warning there because (I think) if you are making no attempt to enforce a trademark you can lose it. 

impmann

Fuck 'em and their law... As the lyric goes...

ChrisMusic

Welcome to the wild and wacky commercial world of intellectual property, copyright and inconsistencies.

However if it was my property I would want to protect it, and any subsequent revenue stream.

It is a multifaceted animal, this.  Everyone seems to hold their own viewpoints and opinions.

"the whole thing's crackers!" - yes you are probably right, most of it is handled like smoke & mirrors...  

ThePrettyDamned

They must make a fortune from Warmoth, musikraft, allparts etc. It cashes in on one of the best features of a bolt on guitar - want a different neck shape? Different coloured body?

I coulda sworn fender were going to release their own bodies, too... Not sure if it happened though.

Megii

ICBM said:

No, making partscasters is perfectly legal provided they don't have either the Fender logo on a non-Fender neck, or a Fender headstock shape even with a different logo (or no logo). Fender only have trademarks on their logo and the head shape, so any other combination is legal. You can legally build a partscaster with a genuine Fender neck and logo, but still not sell it as a Fender guitar.

Of course Fender know - they're happy to take the money .

Makes sense - of course that does mean my partscasters, including the 2 I've already made, are illegal, as they have Fender headstock shapes (but no Fender logo). And all about money in the end of course lol!

Megii

monquixote said:

It's possible they don't care, but they put the warning there because (I think) if you are making no attempt to enforce a trademark you can lose it. 

I guess that's true - they can't seriously expect me to buy a non-Fender neck, and then they still have some kind of remote control over how I see fit to use it - not going to happen. And I didn't see anything on the site I got it from telling me I could only use it to replace a broken neck on a Fender, but the resulting guitar would still not be an actual Fender etc. etc. - which I would have thought would be rather unfair i.e. imposing conditions on use only when I receive the neck and read the little card...

Megii

ChrisMusic said:

Welcome to the wild and wacky commercial world of intellectual property, copyright and inconsistencies.

However if it was my property I would want to protect it, and any subsequent revenue stream.

It is a multifaceted animal, this.  Everyone seems to hold their own viewpoints and opinions.

"the whole thing's crackers!" - yes you are probably right, most of it is handled like smoke & mirrors...  

I guess as long as the likes of small fry like me can "get away with it", I'm happy - Fender still make money from licensing the parts, I get to make my partscasters, and the rest I leave to the lawyers...

Ianpdq

My Partscaster Fender neck all the rest from Axesrus  http://i482.photobucket.com/albums/rr186/ianpdq/14092008016s-1.jpg

Megii

ThePrettyDamned said:

They must make a fortune from Warmoth, musikraft, allparts etc. It cashes in on one of the best features of a bolt on guitar - want a different neck shape? Different coloured body?

I coulda sworn fender were going to release their own bodies, too... Not sure if it happened though.

They must do well enough I would have thought! My previous two partscasters (a tele and a strat) used unlicensed necks (I won't say from where here) but which still had very accurate headstock shapes. I guess that is the kind of stuff Fender would want to stop being sold, although I still see plenty of such parts on ebay etc.

asimmd

I f you take a look at the Strings Direct website,they do have genuine Fender necks and bodies. The necks even have Fender decals on them,so if I put a guitar together using these parts,is it a Fender or not? Also,if your Ford car is involved in an accident and the bonnet is replaced with a 3rd party replacement,the garage will put the logo back on the new bonnet,does this mean the car is no longer a Ford?

Megii

Ianpdq said:

My Partscaster Fender neck all the rest from Axesrus  http://i482.photobucket.com/albums/rr186/ianpdq/14092008016s-1.jpg

Nice! Axesrus don't seem to be selling bodies or necks at all anymore I notice...