Back to School.

Alnico

@Troy ;
I hope it's of some help.

I've been distracted since Friday by family who can;t stay out of trouble, hospital or both but it's calmed down now so i will get back to this tomorrow.
I've learned to play the hornpipe, not terribly fast but i can do it.
I still have to transcribe and notate it but i did find time to work it out on the fretboard while things were going mental around me.

What's helped me more and i've learned pretty quickly is the Relative Major and Minor scales.

If you're playing , for example in A Major the major scale starts at fret 5 on the E string and goes up as normal.

3 semitones below it is F# Minor, normally the sad scale however by starting THAT scale on fret 5 of the E string you are climbing up a Minor scale shape but it's a major scale sound.

If you're already in a Minor Key, go UP three semitones (Or a tone and a half) to a major scale and if you're in a Major Key go DOWN three semitones to a minor scale - just take note of the starting position which makes the difference to how it sounds.

There is very likely more to it than that but that's the part of it i've learned so far and it works.

Alnico

Been a bit of a weird week with way more drama than i'm used to and a Hospital trip for me followed by a handful of Megadeth signature painkillers which successfully wiped out a day and half.

I did however make a little progress through the haze.
I had to concentrate mostly on the strings this week because pens and paper need coherent thought and good eyesight, both of which i have been devoid of. 

Instead of wasting the time, i have spent some more time on identifying the major and minor scale shapes, basically anywhere i want to play them on the neck and then looking for and exploring the relative majors and minors.
I've also been expanding on chords and looking for the scale positions they occupy then mixing partial chords into an improvised tune around that scale.................If you listen to the full length version of whisky in the jar by Thin Lizzy there are parts of that solo where he does this and that's the kind of thing i was aiming for, despite not quite getting there. There's also a ton of Hendrix stuff opening up for me now by looking for these corresponding notes and scale runs around chords.

That was as much Theory-ish stuff as i could handle this week but today isn't too bad and if it stays this way i should be able to get back to actual study tomorrow.

I still have yet to notate the 'Sailors Hornpipe' but now i'm playing it through slowly without dropping any more than two or three notes throughout the whole sequence so it's coming. Now i just have to build that speed and accuracy up. There are quite a few fingering positions you can use so it's been a case of looking for them and then identifying which ones won't trip my fingers up as they try to move faster later on in the song.
It's getting there.

For the weekend where it's supposed to be for fun and jamming / learning actual songs......

I've learned the intro to 'Brighter than a thousand Suns' by Iron Maiden today and yesterday i was working my way through the first part of 'For the Love of God', which i've been working on for a couple of weekends now.
I have watched loads of tutorials on this so the bit i can play, i know i'm playing the right notes but the phrasing is so not easy to get right and do the notes some justice.

I can play both and i think i've got the right notes and harmonic consistency between strings, i'm now finding out how bad my muting technique is, especially with 'FTLOG' as it's loads of gain and delay. I watched an excellent tutorial by Ben Eller on YT to do with this and i'm getting it now. My palm muting while playing is starting to become second nature (But certainly not there yet) and my left hand is starting to recognise sympathetic vibrations and which fingers could bring that under control. I swear never to use a hairband !
My amp came with 'Song' presets and one of them IS 'FTLOG' and sounds frighteningly like the record so i'm just flicking to that and keep trying to play through it. SO far not along to the record because i'm trying to retain a little dignity while i need it so much !
I can get as far as the first really fast bit and then to be honest i haven't looked any further because that's a decent enough chunk of the song to take in for now anyway. I'm just working on getting that first part right, maybe it's the first quarter of the song, i'm not sure.

It's also got a song preset for 'Paranoid' which really does a great Randy Rhoads sound so that's been TONS of fun to play with and 'Paranoid' is a great exercise song for accuracy when playing the rhythm parts. It's also going to be a great blank canvass to solo over and improvise when i can play faster so the presets on this amp are working out really well.

Speaking of the amp, this little thing is quite awesome. I read about somewhere and then tried boosting the Channel Vol and then Master vol but keeping the power scaling low. It really changes the sound and attack of the notes, just like a real amp would so instead of pouring on gain, you can keep the gain quite low and boost the hell out of it using these two controls plus a medium gain pedal (built in) for solo's. I'm loving how much this amp does for such a stupidly low cost (£55 used, as new) and it's WAY loud enough for home. I reckon i could gig this in a pub with an external speaker cab, it goes up to about 28 watts and can run an 8 way (5 Button) footswitch to recall presets.

The Maiden song is in 7/4 timing which is so much fun to play with. I had no problem getting that one and then it switches between that and 4/4 for the chorus and back to 7/4.....................so much fun to play along with !
Again, i'm struggling beyond the first third of the song. I can keep up until they start the second 'Movement' and again, i haven't tried to go much further yet until i can play that part properly.

These songs have NOT been learned by reading tabs or music. I've learned these by ear and analysed each part until i'm playing it right. When i reckon i have got it right and worked out the feel of the song, i will get the official sheet music / tab and compare to see how right i was and also correct what's still wrong but i think it's important to keep my ear in training as it's served me well over the years where it was all i had and i still need that conformity in my mind.

Here's the Maiden Track to listen to just because it's a Kick Ass song and musically excellent, but have a listen to how much there is in there to learn and take in. There are techniques in this song that i can hear and pick up on which are used in other Maiden songs..................so i'm also recognising styles and common riffs. Again this might not be 'Sky News' but it's more than I've ever managed to achieve in the last 36 years and it's only taken me a couple of weeks so far !

If you're reading this wondering whether or not to actually sit down and suss all this (and more) out all i can tell you is i haven't had so much satisfaction out of my guitar EVER.

Knowledge is power and when power comes through on the fretboard and you hear yourself play something you never could before................

Just try it, words can't do it justice !

Alnico

Sit and stare at this for around 10 minutes and see how much it unlocks.

http://i.imgur.com/lQx1hJ1.jpg

Look for patterns of where the same note can be played.
There are patterns all over the place.

Just this one image has opened loads of doors for me.

What does it do for you?
Does the neck make a bit more sense now?

viz

sev112 said:

Alnico said:

Ok i have a question which i'm not exactly struggling with but i want to check i've got this right......

On the image below it shows both the Treble and Bass Clef.
So far i have been learning that the full range of my guitar from the low E to the high E at fret 24 goes from an E which is usually written on a treble clef with THREE lines below it. That Low E (My 6th string open) is in the space below the THIRD line below the treble clef. The High E is above the SIXTH line above the treble clef. So far this has made sense.

I am looking for the best image to use as reference to draw my own stave out with all the notes on, onto A3 paper which is going on the wall in front of me. Stare at it all day every day and it will burn itself in. I am doing the same with the fretboard notes diagram and they are going to sit one on top of each other on the wall.

Am i best to think of this as that low E is actually on the Bass clef? I suppose at some point i will have something to do with a 7 string and surely that is then right into that bass clef range?

Have i got it right that a treble clef with lines below it (Except the first one below) is actually mimicking the bass clef?

If i should eventually be thinking of music in both treble and bass clef then i would like to start doing that right from the beginning so if anyone can tell me if i'm right or wrong that would be really helpful.

Cheers.

Yep
bass clef effectively starts one line below the treble clef 
took me years to work that out

Well, 2 lines below because middle C shares the ledger line below / above the staffs. 

http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab217/Vizzage/Mobile Uploads/image_zpsiau8qugn.jpeg

There used to be staffs with different numbers of lines including a system with one staff of 11 lines with middle C on the middle line, but this was standardized into the treble and bass clefs by the Italians. 

By the way the treble clef is meant to resemble an old G, and the G line is the one that goes through the curl in the middle. The bass clef is like an old F, and that colon contains the F line. So you have the G a 5th above middle C, and the F below middle C. (Refer to your circle of fifths diagram )

Alnico

^Excellent and as always, really helpful.

Thank you.

paul_c2

The guitar is technically a "transposing" instrument in that the actual notes sound an octave lower than what's written. Often its not recognised as such though, because its an octave and not a different note value. And sometimes parts are written so it makes sense to play it at concert pitch rather than the (octave) transposed, depending on what they are.

Personally I'd not worry too much about learning to read music, but its good to have an awareness of what the notes you're playing are, and how they'd be written. It seems (to me) that hardly any guitar music is written in (proper) musical notation, its much more likely to be in tab.

Alnico

paul_c2 said:

The guitar is technically a "transposing" instrument in that the actual notes sound an octave lower than what's written. Often its not recognised as such though, because its an octave and not a different note value. And sometimes parts are written so it makes sense to play it at concert pitch rather than the (octave) transposed, depending on what they are.

Personally I'd not worry too much about learning to read music, but its good to have an awareness of what the notes you're playing are, and how they'd be written. It seems (to me) that hardly any guitar music is written in (proper) musical notation, its much more likely to be in tab.

Thanks,


I want to learn to read music for a few reasons, not just to improve my playing or even sight read.

What i do need clearing up is this thing you're talking about, the octave and it's written wrong thing?

What does that all mean?

I've just learned where my Top E at fret 24 is on the Staff (Stave??) on top of the 6th ledger line above the treble clef and the bottom low E open string underneath the 3rd ledger line below the treble clef. I was going to move forward by trying to figure out where the next 'E' down would be on the staff, at my 12th fret E string. Working my way down etc. This is as far as i've got but this "It's written an octave lower" thing is really doing my head in because it throws out any logic i've so far had, which by the sounds of it is probably wrong now.

Can someone please explain this because no matter how you cut it, that E at fret 24 is not the same note as the E at the 12th. Ok it's another E but how can another octave up be written in notation the same as the E at the 12th fret?

Is it by using wine?

In case it is, i'm going to try that and see if it makes a difference.


Right now !

paul_c2

Does this help?

paul_c2

"Transposing" merely means that the note SOUNDS different to WRITTEN. Compare with piano (or any other non-transposing instrument), where middle C written, when played, sounds middle C

Alnico

Yes and that's how i *thought* it was.
Excellent image too - thank you !

So how on earth does this "Written an octave out" thing work into that then because if i go up from what you've written i get to the high E above the 6th ledger line, as i thought and there's all the others. I can see how all tat correlates to the fretboard map i posted above but i can't get what the phrase about ocatves and how it's written means?

paul_c2

You might have seen 8va marks on the staff? This is a notational shorthand to write something an octave lower on the staff than it should be played, to avoid loads of ledger lines.

Alnico

paul_c2 said:

You might have seen 8va marks on the staff? This is a notational shorthand to write something an octave lower on the staff than it should be played, to avoid loads of ledger lines.

Ok now i get it.

And hate it !

As if it wasn't confusing enough.
You now what, for now i'm sticking with loads of ledger lines, at least until i get used to all this.

Alnico

Thanks Paul.

I really appreciate your input and help.
Those images will get printed off with the rest and will really help me learn the note positions.

Cheers.

Alnico

About 3 weeks ago all this was going great, then my amp died.

Everyone has their own opinion of playing unplugged. Mine is it's a complete waste of time because it has nothing to do with how you play plugged in, the two just don't even correlate, or at least they don't for me. I've listened to the arguments so many times and i always feel the same way. Even when plugged in i have to try to filter out the string noise until the amp is really shouting.
As for it improving technique, i just don't agree so i haven't picked it up again yet.

Right or wrong i would rather spend a whole day going back over things than destroy the pick technique i developed before the amp broke.

YMMV

Thanks to a most generous and amazing forum member, i have a replacement amp on loan arriving some time this week and i will be back to this thread asap.

I've 'tested' the video cam on the iPhone and it works well enough with it's own internal mic (thanks @octatonic ) although i haven't tested it at louder volumes yet and now it's going to be a different amp (Poss. BS HT5), it's going to take a while messing with levels etc but i can still play an 'Aux' line in with that amp so i think i *could* still record something (that might sound) good (If someone else were playing it).

So, that's it. Up to date.

I've done fuck all.

Back soon.

Alnico

Spoke too soon.
Had something go my way today so i've got another amp and i am back on this now.

Give me a week or so to get rid of the last few weeks rust and i will try to pick this up where i left off.

Get in !

Alnico

Righto

So i had to do something to brush the rust off and the best thing i thought of was to put my favourite playlist on and see how much of it i could play along with. I was pleasantly surprised however this one really got hold of me and after muddling through it a few times i thought i should go and look up how it's played.
This has unlocked a lot for me, seeing this kind of approach to playing a song on a guitar. The way he alternates between single notes and picking parts of chords isn't technically all that difficult but the quality of note choice and how it all gels together is (to my ears) amazing. This fella really has done a great cover of it too. I've sort of got it so far, I'm just working on tidying it up and trying to stay accurate throughout.
I would *like* to be able to upload a video of me doing this *soon* but how that actually pans out remains to be seen.
Here's this guy who i'm learning this from doing it really rather well.

She Bangs the Drums by the Stone Roses.

Alnico

Ok, we're getting somewhere again now.

CLICK THIS and spend some time really delving into the functionality of this mini site.
Have a long look through the worldwide scales types in the dropdown box on the right, use the numbers to see the whole neck at once or isolate pattern numbers, tick the boxes underneath to see vertical and horizontal with different numbers of notes per string.

It is literally ALL there.

I've discovered a fantastic new way of learning this stuff and it doesn't take any more equipment than you already have.
Here's the technique:

You tell EVERYBODY to just .....(Go away; Insert your favourite method here)
You pick the actual guitar up
Select what you want to learn and here's the AMAZING bit,

No matter how bad you *Think* i's going to sound you just fucking do it anyway and in around 3 to 4 minutes of *actually trying* you're ACTUALLY PLAYING IT.

It is a fucking revelation.
All these years of buying amps, tube screamers and pickups and i never realised i was actually allowed to play anything more complicated than highway to hell, nor that any guitar i would own could possibly even do it without at least £5,000 spending on snake oil and mojo.

Now i have seen the light.
Me and my cheap-ass-import Jackson have broken through that wall of cork-sniffing oppression and you can too.

Rise up (off the sofa @Emp_Fab ), look your family in the eyes and say

"I am going to play my guitar"

then simply leave the room and totally ignore whatever coronation street style bullshit you just unleashed.
Plug your amp in and turn it UP. If you can't hear them, they're not there !

Pick and scale and learn.
They only keep us as slaves because we are uneducated.
If we educate ourselves we can all become famous (I'm sure the music industry can cope with such an influx) and we can break out of this sofa internet world and actually be musicians.

If you play the right gigs in the right venues, whichever sex you want to be with that evening will be queuing up at the side of the stage, money will simply be thrust upon you wherever you go and champagne will fall from the skies, all because you learned your scales and what the notes were called on the fretboard. 

If there was ever an opportunity looking you RIGHT in the eyes, it's now and it's happening.
Click the link and become rich and famous, guaranteed !!! *

I would like to point out that i have no affiliation to this website, music itself, the music industry, scales or the super locrian mode whatsoever and *any and all claims and fame and fortune are written here solely for the purpose of story telling, excitement, a sense of slight tension and mystery which i've got to be honest, had a dissonant chord progression playing over it as i was writing this so try to have that in mind as you read,..........and therefore i will not be held responsible for any failures you may experience within the music industry, based on this advice............despite what the actual Law may actual say. I have specified "No returns" and this applies to absolutely everything i say and do.

Pick a Chord, Pick the scale and just play something.
You will be amazed at the results and how many songs you know in your head, suddenly leap out of the fretboard at you...........That part of that riff that you play that song in the car every day will suddenly be under your fingers for a second so you stop,.......do the waynes world thing,.........."Whoaa, DUDE !, Did you hear that??" (Even if you're the only one in the room !) and then do it again so you know you're right then just explore around what you've already got. You will find it, it's easy from that point. The amount of songs i've learned by ear, just by having three or four notes of one riff is impossible to count. That link helps you find those points in songs among lots of other really useful things.

Do it.
It works.

CLICK THIS.

Alnico

Thanks to @Paul_C posting this in another thread, i thought it would be relevant here.

This is pretty advanced stuff but even on the first few pages there's wisdom and technique that can apply to everyone and there is no harm and only good can come from attempting to play as far into this as you can.

I'm looking at it as something i could come back to again and again for years and always learn something from.
It's way beyond where i am right now but it's still a huge resource to have this on your hard drive.

Thanks again Paul - a massive boost !
EDIT: Also thanks to Steve Vai for putting all this out there when he could easily have just sat back and lapped it all up, keeping this to himself. I think it's incredibly generous of him to give so much time to things like this and to the thousands of video's he puts out to inspire and teach people. The man is an inspiration in more ways than just playing.
Yeah, i know there's little chance of him *actually* reading this but as well as him having been my entire inspiration my whole life to play the guitar, he's a bloke who's worked fucking hard on all this and 'Thanks' are all too often forgotten.

Steve Vai's 30 Hour Guitar Workout PDF.

Nikko

...aaaaaaand saved to hard-drive

Cheers

Alnico

Nikko said:

...aaaaaaand saved to hard-drive

Cheers

"INNIT !!"