Steve Lukather PCM 70 Sounds

bingefeller

I found a great post on HRI about Steve's delays:

I can't say whether or not they actually sound close to the PCM70 tone-wise (never played one) but I think those pedals are probably getting pretty close to how his two main delay sounds--"Pan Delay" and "Circular Delay"--are actually set up. I looked closely at the new pictures of his rig along with the Hardwire Delay manual and I'm convinced he's using one delay pedal (the one on the left) for Pan Delay and then the other two in series for Circular Delay. I also think these are both fed in parallel to the mixer in the Bradshaw PSS (Pedal Switching System) so he can have both on at the same time if he wants, just like engaging two PCM70s. Here how I think it works:

(going from left to right on the pedalboard, I'll call them Delay A, B, and C)

- Delay A is set up for "Pan Delays," though with not exactly the same delay times as the PCM70. On the PCM70 you could offset the delay taps, and the Pan Delay preset had a +16ms offset for the 2nd tap (376ms and 768ms); the Hardwire is probably doing 376ms and 752ms, on the digital delay setting. There's only one cable feeding the input, so I'm pretty sure he's using this one for ping-pong delay (just like how some of the Boss pedals work with different inputs equaling different delay patterns).

- Delays B & C are set up for "Circular Delays," and probably with the exact same delay times with the PCM70. Delay C's input is routed in stereo so it doesn't do a ping-pong delay, but one of its outputs is routed directly (with a small cable) to the input of Delay B which is doing a ping-pong delay--if you set it up like this...

Delay C - 888ms delay time, with a few repeats, wet+dry output (to mixer and Delay
Delay B - 292ms & 584ms ping-pong delay times, 0 feedback, 100% wet output (to mixer)

...the dry signal coming through Delay C will hit Delay B and create the first 2 taps of the Circular Delay, and then the 3rd 888ms delay tap will come through both and start the process all over again, creating the 3-tap delay. The crucial difference here is the lack of a Diffusion parameter, but I'm guessing he is using the Lo-Fi delay type on one of those--or possibly both--to make the delays "thin out" a little bit. I'm not exactly sure how the signals are routed into the PSS mixer, but it looks like the 888ms has its own spot on the mixer (from the second output on Delay C) and then maybe each one of the outputs from delay B have their own spot on the mixer, to allow damping of the right side by -3dB just like the PCM70. 

I didn't have Hardwire pedals to try this out, but I set this same scenario up on my Lexicon MX200 (Processor 1 -> Processor 2 in series) and it really did nail the Circular Delay times (though not the tone or the -3dB difference--no mixer and no Diffusion/Lo-fi delay on the MX200). 

Getting back to the original question, I would say the answer is you can get Luke's delays in pedals, but with some trade-offs--if you want to do Circular Delays AND Pan Delays together, you'll need a mixer of some kind, but if you're ok with having one or the other at a time, you could get away with using just two pedals. Eventide Timefactor could nail the Pan Delay times even better than the Hardwire pedals, and if you had another delay feeding the Timefactor you could do Circular Delays--the first pedal (ideally) would be a "boutique" analog or tape-style delay, or a bit-crushing delay or something that to feed into the Timefactor, which you could further manipulate in all sorts of ways to "thin out" the delay sound, or even use some spatial-enhancing modulation. If you don't care about getting the exact same delay times, some cheaper units like the Boss DD-20 or the Digitech Timebender would work fine too for the ping-pong delay part (not to mention both have analog pass-through). Personally, I think an El Capistan or a TC Flashback into either one of those two would sound great! Not to mention they would be capable of doing a LOT more than just these two Lexicon patches.

jay41dmb

This is going to help so very much. I have a TC Flashback, and 2 Hardwire delays.  I'm curious as to how I should hook this up.  You said that Delay A would be set at 376ms and 752ms on the Hardwire but it only has one time setting on it.  You're help would be greatly appreciated.  I am running in stereo currently and also should mention that I'm running in series.  

bingefeller

jay41dmb said:

This is going to help so very much. I have a TC Flashback, and 2 Hardwire delays.  I'm curious as to how I should hook this up.  You said that Delay A would be set at 376ms and 752ms on the Hardwire but it only has one time setting on it.  You're help would be greatly appreciated.  I am running in stereo currently and also should mention that I'm running in series.  

You need to set each Hardwire delay with a diffferent time - one pedal does 376 and the other 752.  Not sure about how you physically hook it up. 

 @analogue_kid might be able to tell you more.  

professorben

bingefeller said:

jay41dmb said:

This is going to help so very much. I have a TC Flashback, and 2 Hardwire delays.  I'm curious as to how I should hook this up.  You said that Delay A would be set at 376ms and 752ms on the Hardwire but it only has one time setting on it.  You're help would be greatly appreciated.  I am running in stereo currently and also should mention that I'm running in series.  

You need to set each Hardwire delay with a diffferent time - one pedal does 376 and the other 752.  Not sure about how you physically hook it up. 

 @analogue_kid might be able to tell you more.  

What about running the Flashback first then put a hardware into each side stereo?

alternatively just tone print edit the Flashback to the times you want? 
As I think the 376/752 is a quarter note and dotted 8th which the Flashback has as an option. 

And when routed stereo the delays are split. 

guitarmangler

bingefeller said:

jay41dmb said:

This is going to help so very much. I have a TC Flashback, and 2 Hardwire delays.  I'm curious as to how I should hook this up.  You said that Delay A would be set at 376ms and 752ms on the Hardwire but it only has one time setting on it.  You're help would be greatly appreciated.  I am running in stereo currently and also should mention that I'm running in series.  

You need to set each Hardwire delay with a diffferent time - one pedal does 376 and the other 752.  Not sure about how you physically hook it up. 

 @analogue_kid might be able to tell you more.  

The 376/752 thing is the ping pong setting for one hardwire (A) , so just set it to 376. On the pcm it would be a slightly offset ping pong, which the hardwire can't do. 

bingefeller

@jay41dmb ; you could ask on the CAE Facebook group.  There's a guy on there called Bruno Durand and has worked for Lukather in some capacity IIRC.  A lot of the guys on there are Luke nuts and would probably be able to guide you how to exactly hook up your rig.  

Winny_Pooh

worth checking out

jay41dmb

Thank you very much guys. You have been so helpful!

clarkefan

Search TGP for a thread Dave Friedman (RACKSYSTEMS) started about a board he built for Luke a couple of years ago.  

He showed some photos and described the chain of pedals, including two Hardwires (he doesn't use the rack stuff any more) and an on-board mixer which I *think* had something to do with how the delays work together.

Sorry, I can't remember more detail, it was a bit confusing