SecoTHERM

WezV

seems to be an increase in salesmen pushing this at the moment, but its something I was already considering before they started and the wife made the mistake of telling one i might be interested.  suddenly they want to book appointments but wont discuss cost over the phone.   I just asked for the cost per sqm and what factors would push this up or down.  they would not discuss without an appointment and demonstration so I told them not tobother

I get the concept, a paint on cream that provides a waterproof, but apparently breathable coating.  This keeps the bricks drier which keeps them warmer so helps heat loss etc.

My cousin raves about the stuff, he has had his victorian terrace done and having seen the difference between his house and the neighbours shortly after it rained, I am nearly convinced.     A lot of online reviews claim its just snake oil and no better than any other weather seal.

Any experiences?  

My house is old with solid brick walls. There are no blown bricks yet, but there are on other houses of a similar age in the street and it might only be a matter of time.  Pointing is still okay at the moment, probably 7/10 so i am monitoring but not concerned yet.  there is some damp inside from condensation on the colder walls.   I am told the secotherm will help with all of these.

octatonic

I assume you've read this?

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5332229

WezV

Yeah.  trust you guys more

WezV

Fwiw I have tried a different approach in one of the rooms as a trial. It's been lined inside with insulated plasterboard.

works very well for preventing the condensation damp and keeping the room cosy, but does nothing to protect the old brickwork on the outside. It's also gonna cost at least £400 per room in materials and is massively disruptive.


I don't want to cover the outside in insulation but that seems to be happening more often.

stickyfiddle

WezV said:

Yeah.  trust you guys more

I know nothing of these guys, but I do know the MSE forums are generally full of good advice and helpful folks. The healthy dose of skepticism in that thread makes me happy either way

WezV

That thread seemed to lack actual experiences of it's performance though.... So it is mainly scepticism.

maybe I need to phrase my question a different way.

Brick work deteriorates as it ages. What's the best way to protect it?

Solid brick walls suffer from condensation damp? What's the best way to prevent it?

octatonic

WezV said:

Yeah.  trust you guys more

That is a nice thing to say.
Mad and misguided, but nice.

octatonic

WezV said:

That thread seemed to lack actual experiences of it's performance though.... So it is mainly scepticism.

maybe I need to phrase my question a different way.

1.Brick work deteriorates as it ages. What's the best way to protect it?

2. Solid brick walls suffer from condensation damp? What's the best way to prevent it?

1. Repointing.
2. Dry course.

WezV

Yeah, but in my experience it's not enough.

I am coming at this having lived in old houses for the last 30 of my 36 years. My dad still lives in that first one, it's now 130 years old. Damp has been a constant battle the whole time.  all the causes have been addressed, some more than once and he is currently stripping another room back to bare brick and starting again.

I have owned 2 old houses myself with similar, but less severe issues.  same sort of bricks in the same weather conditions etc... Last one was rendered on the back and having that redone was a great decision, but I don't want to render this house.

just considering options for improvements at this stage.... Nothing is drastically needed now as I want to see the affect the new roof and the insulated walls in one room has before deciding the best way to spend my money

this stuff claims to be water resistant and breathable. I believe the first but struggle with the second. I have seen rain running off it whilst the bricks of an adjoined building just soaked up water. 


what I take from the responses here and on MSE is healthy scepticism... Not experience of this relatively new product

WezV

And re-pointing is on the list.  not drastically needed yet though. I would want to do it before any other treatments though

octatonic

I would get a damp consultant in.
There are many reasons why you could be having problems- it could be something as simple as over ventilation/under heating or under ventilation.
Or it could be something structural.

WezV

honestly, I don't think it's anything serious at this stage. I know it's not structural, it's not rising damp, it's not the roof. Covered all that off here and at the last house.

 the walls are cold, this leads to condensation and a bit of the black stain inside, usually behind furniture that is against external walls.

humidity levels inside are consistently fine and the walls are usually dry, but always cold... It's not like the house I had at uni where tea bags turned green in a day




just considering ways my old house can benefit from modern techniques. If it wasn't for the blown bricks on neighbouring houses I would not be thinking external treatment at all.

Sambostar

You can get those damp proof gel sticks that you put in after drilling holes in the course 150mm from the ground.  Hopefully the place has slates, even if it doesn't have foundations.  Reguarding insulation, best method is external cladding and insulation with an air gap.  Truth is, old houses are shite and were never designed to live in with central heating and in all truth they want knocking down and rebuilding if you ask me, put a picture hook in and it acts as a cold bridge and goes mouldy and rusty, but it'll never happen as the loveys object to it and so much of our housing stock is old, inadequate and shite.  Just embrace pneumonia and think about what you are doing to save this green and pleasant land.

WezV

if only they made new houses of a reasonable size and price


I'm not precious about keeping the house all original, it's already been messed with a lot. modernising the structure to perform more like a modern house doesn't concern me.

Sambostar

One of the only houses I can, could afford, as they've gone back up to £160k again is a Reema semi.  They were built to house people during and after the war, they were never meant to last this long.  If you put a brick skin around them you can get a mortgage on them.  Only problem is that you can forget RSJ's and the wall are over a foot thick. Housing in this country is nuts.  The equivalent new built would be a rabbit hutch flat as 50% shared ownership for £130k.

WezV

Most of the pre-fab ones round here are still council houses and they have done the external insulation on all off them. You can spot the owners who took advantage of right to buy because they are still unclad.

boogieman

I love the look of Victorian places but by god so many were thrown up at minimal cost. I had a two up two down terraced place in West London: nothing was straight in the whole place, the ceilings were lath and plaster and were gradually turning to dust, no proper foundations, single skin walls so the place was freezing in the winter, draughty sash windows, lead plumbing etc etc. It cost me £11k in the early 80's. Ok a lot of it can be improved with modern materials but they're selling for £800k nowadays as "artisan's cottages". Bloody joke. 

WezV

Nothing being straight is common, as is minimal foundations... but its not true of all older properties and not all were thrown up cheaply.   I used to find perfectly square and flat walls a bit disconcerting .

Mine is well built and in a good state of repair, I just want to make sure I can keep it that way.   Its even better now guttering and roof have been completely redone and chimneys have had a good seeing to.

My old terrace did suffer from the minimal foundation thing, thankfully there was a house either side holding it up

tonymcg

WezV said:

seems to be an increase in salesmen pushing this at the moment, but its something I was already considering before they started and the wife made the mistake of telling one i might be interested.  suddenly they want to book appointments but wont discuss cost over the phone.   I just asked for the cost per sqm and what factors would push this up or down.  they would not discuss without an appointment and demonstration so I told them not tobother

I get the concept, a paint on cream that provides a waterproof, but apparently breathable coating.  This keeps the bricks drier which keeps them warmer so helps heat loss etc.

My cousin raves about the stuff, he has had his victorian terrace done and having seen the difference between his house and the neighbours shortly after it rained, I am nearly convinced.     A lot of online reviews claim its just snake oil and no better than any other weather seal.

Any experiences?  

My house is old with solid brick walls. There are no blown bricks yet, but there are on other houses of a similar age in the street and it might only be a matter of time.  Pointing is still okay at the moment, probably 7/10 so i am monitoring but not concerned yet.  there is some damp inside from condensation on the colder walls.   I am told the secotherm will help with all of these.

PolarityMan

WezV said:

Yeah.  trust you guys more

So your concern is if it will impact your tone?

tonymcg

To try and help with a couple of the questions I use Properla masonry cream this is the same sort of make up, these products have a 5 % vat rating so have to be independently tested to qualify for it.

I have know people who have made big savings on heating bills by using these coatings but it also depends on the condition of the property and how you use it. One person is saving £35 per month since having his house done that's a 3 bed Victorian terrace. The cost of a job will vary as all repointing and blown bricks have to be sorted, it doesn't matter how good the product is if its a poor substrate it wont work. Most companies will charge between 25 - 45 per m2 including all repairs and access equipment.

A lot of people on here talk about the damp gel rods or injection, the creams work on the same principle they penetrate the substrate and once cured leave a breathable waterproof finish.

As for sealing up an old property that everyone is very quick to say it should never be done .. do these people have upvc A rated windows ?? As that is what they do eliminate the draughts reduce condensation stop heat escaping through the glass, no doubt they all said they would never take off when they arrived on the market.