Action Problem

fretmeister

I'm only here because I've made a bet with myself.

ghostwhistler

I've got it pretty straight, it could probably be the tiniest shade tighter, but i'm not entirely comfortable consistently yanking the rod (more tea vicar!).

Haven't yet adjusted the action, but the buzz remains. I don't really want the action higher, that's the problem though.

Maybe the neck is the problem.

I could try and take a photo of the neck, does this place allow pictures to be added?

Maynehead

You can post pictures by uploading to a separate image hosting website and pasting the direct link to the jpg in your message.

Normally though any problems with the neck will be too subtle to be diagnoseable through photos.

Also, simply straightening the neck will not alleviate any issues with buzzing on its own, but what it does do is allow you to raise the height of the bridge more to achieve the same 12th fret action, and that should help with the buzzing higher up the neck.

So, if you haven't adjusted the bridge after lowering the relief, then it would be expected that your buzz will remain unchanged, and possibly get even worse. The two adjustments go hand in hand so just doing the relief will not solve the problem.

However, from everything you have said, it does sound like you have a neck that has inherent problems that will prevent you from achieving an action that is as low as you'd like it to be. I think you may need to make some compromises in terms of string buzz and string action. In my experience with guitars, all but the highest quality instruments will require some kind of compromise in their set up, if you demand a low action. You may simply be expecting too much out of your guitar.

ghostwhistler

To be clear, raising the bridge refers to raising the string action via the saddles, right? The bridge itself isn't going anywhere 

Maynehead

ghostwhistler said:

To be clear, raising the bridge refers to raising the string action via the saddles, right? The bridge itself isn't going anywhere 

Yes, that's right, "raising the action at the bridge end" is probably more correct description.

Keep your relief at the amount suggested and leave it there, then keep raising the action at the bridge until the buzz goes away. Hopefully at some point it will.

Then it will be a matter of finding the right balance between lower string action and more buzz.

Incidentally, on one occasion I had a low E buzz on a guitar that would not go away. It happened just after I put a new set of Ernie Ball strings on. Tried everything to get rid of it to no avail. Eventually I restrung it again with a set of D'Addarios of the same string gauge and hey presto, the string buzz disappeared. Not saying that's the issue but stranger things have happened...

ghostwhistler

Ok, i've set the relief as best i can and I've donemy best with the action. It's improved, but it's not 100%.

The chap in the shop i spoke to said that it should be possible to remove buzz entirely, of course that assumes idea conditions and components.

It's not unplayable. Perhaps it's just a question of getting used to it. IN fact the point about new strings (which these are, though I've no idea what brand or even guage they are) is well taken, i've experienced the same thing. I won't change them until i need to since bass strings cost the earth (a local shop used to sell a cheap brand they were idea for playing at home but no longer).

Thanks for the help, I think we've reached the best I can do. I will try and post a picture later, if anyone's interested.

http://i347.photobucket.com/albums/p469/ghostwhistler/20160808_130620_zpsexkit0jt.jpg

Maynehead

As the strings wear in the buzz should quieten down too. New strings always sound a bit clangy at first, so play it as much as you can, and don't let the buzz stop you enjoying your new bass.

Oh and please do post a pic, and check back often. We need more fret-bass-ers around here!

ghostwhistler

Maynehead said:

As the strings wear in the buzz should quieten down too. New strings always sound a bit clangy at first, so play it as much as you can, and don't let the buzz stop you enjoying your new bass.

Oh and please do post a pic, and check back often. We need more fret-bass-ers around here!

THank you.

I posted a pic above. The guitar is a Cort Action DLX. THe finish is quite nice, and it's disarmingly light!

ICBM

The pickups are *far* too high, especially the neck one. This can actually contribute to buzzing problems because the magnetic field of the pickups will pull down a bit on the strings and can make them resonate slightly oddly.

Maynehead

Pickup height should be between 2-3mm from top of pickup to bottom of string with the string fretted at the last fret, with the treble side slightly higher than the bass side.

ICBM

Maynehead said:

Pickup height should be between 2-3mm from top of pickup to bottom of string with the string fretted at the last fret, with the treble side slightly higher than the bass side.

I would go lower than that, but even with those measurements the pickup is far too high. The strings will be almost touching it when fretted at the last fret.

fretmeister

I have my pickups really high. I use them as ramps.

but the EMG and Delano's I use have really low string pull.

ghostwhistler

ICBM said:

Maynehead said:

Pickup height should be between 2-3mm from top of pickup to bottom of string with the string fretted at the last fret, with the treble side slightly higher than the bass side.

I would go lower than that, but even with those measurements the pickup is far too high. The strings will be almost touching it when fretted at the last fret.

I'm confused. The pickups are about 4-5mm below the bottom of the string. So how can they be too high?

ICBM

They look about that distance *now*, so they can't be when you're playing them. Fret the strings at the last fret - ie the closest one to the pickup. How far below the string is the top of the pickup?

In your pic it looks like they will be almost touching.

Regardless of the exact measurement, in my experience they - the neck one especially - are far too high.

It may make no difference to the buzzing problem, but at the very least it will make it difficult to get a good balance between the pickups.

ghostwhistler

I've tried lowering them,but i can't get enough purchase on a couple of ths screws to lower them. I'm not sure they will go any further. They've already been lowered before i took that picture. Not by much. So if it's indeed possible tp push them further down that will have to be done with a professional. Even WD40 couldn't shift the screw and I don't want to damage the screw by forcing it.

HOwever, the buzz happens when i'm not plugged in, so I don't see how the pickup can be at fault.

The action on the E string is a shade higher than the rest. The A can't really go any lower without more buzz but is about 3mm. The E is a shade higher, nearing 4mm. This is obviously not idea according to those Fender specs, but without increasing the buzz on the E to the point i can't hear the notes on frets 4 5 10 and 11 (in particular) there's nothing i can do.

I think i've done the best I can. The neck could probably stand to be a touch tighter as well, just a touch. But getting an exact measurement is tough. I don't want to endlessly twist the rod of course.

Maybe it is the strings, but i'm not going to change them until they really need changing.

I like the pickups a little closer because plucking is easier. Not too close, but not so far that your anchoring your thumb way out. I have to say i've not noticed any major tone problems as a result, although my amp is a crappy inherited guitar practice amp

TTony

Having read the other threads, I'm really loathe to join in this thread, but ...

ghostwhistler said:

HOwever, the buzz happens when i'm not plugged in, so I don't see how the pickup can be at fault.

Just think about that.  

Think about what's causing the buzz.  

Clue:  It's not the amplification of the output, so being plugged in (or not) is irrelevant to the cause of the problem.

If the strings are hitting the top of the pickup covers - because the pickups are too high and too close to the strings - you'll get buzz, just the same as if they're hitting the top of a fret.  With the strings unfretted, those p'ups look too high, assuming that your neck relief, action, bridge & nut height (et al) are all set correctly - which is a dangerous assumption of course.  When you fret the strings, the gap between the string and p'up will be reduced.  Of course, the gap will reduce progressively as you fret the string at high frets, so the likelihood of buzz increases.  Even when you're not plugged in.

ghostwhistler said:

I think i've done the best I can.

Indeed.  So take it to a professional and have them do a proper job.  Or try a set-up course so you learn the skills yourself and spend a little money on some appropriate tools so that you can do the job properly.

Endless tweaking of truss rods won't help if you've got a high fret or two.  Endless fiddling with bridge/nut height won't help if you've got a p'up cavity that's incorrectly routed ...

ghostwhistler

The strings aren't hitting the pickup covers. That wasn't the reason for calling out the pickup height. They'd have to be unplayably high to physically brush against the strings.

It could well be the frets that are the problem, but my feeling is that's not it. But I could be wrong. I ran a straight edge along the frets and nothing stood out.

ICBM

The magnetic pull of the pickups can cause fret buzz even when the bass is not plugged in if they're too close, because it causes the strings to resonate slightly oddly.

Can you physically push the pickup down into the cavity if you press on it? If so it's just the screws that are the problem if the heads are chewed up (common on cheaper basses) so they need to be replaced. If not, there may be too much padding/rubber under the pickup.

ghostwhistler

The pickups could possibly go a little further down, but not to any great degree.

Surely if they were the cause of the buzz, it would be ubiquitous. Why would only a few notes on the E string buzz if it was the pickup?

The screws are the problem; there are two per pickup and one one each is just too stiff to shift. I have the right tool but all i'm doing by trying toscrew it at this point is chewing up the hole. I tried spraying some wd 40 but it didn't do anything. Maybe a professional with better tools would have more luck, but for now that's all I can do.

If it's the padding then I'm leaving that where it is, I'm not going to remove the strings and try and take the pickups out myself I'm afraid.

Sorry, but I'm struggling to see that it's the pickups. I don't know for certain but it's not ringing true for me.

ICBM

ghostwhistler said:

The pickups could possibly go a little further down, but not to any great degree.

Surely if they were the cause of the buzz, it would be ubiquitous. Why would only a few notes on the E string buzz if it was the pickup?

The screws are the problem; there are two per pickup and one one each is just too stiff to shift. I have the right tool but all i'm doing by trying toscrew it at this point is chewing up the hole. I tried spraying some wd 40 but it didn't do anything. Maybe a professional with better tools would have more luck, but for now that's all I can do.

If it's the padding then I'm leaving that where it is, I'm not going to remove the strings and try and take the pickups out myself I'm afraid.

Sorry, but I'm struggling to see that it's the pickups. I don't know for certain but it's not ringing true for me.

I don't know for certain either, but it could well be. Look up what "Strat-itis" means - it's when the neck pickup on a Fender Strat does the same thing when it's too close to the strings. It causes wolf notes and sometimes string buzzing because the magnetic pull makes the strings (mostly the low E, because it has the most magnetic mass) resonate oddly. The same happens on basses.

It could *also* be combined with slightly uneven fretting, and/or the action just being too low, but that doesn't rule out the pickups.

If you want to fix this you're going to have to figure it out yourself.