What to teach kids?

Bucket

Two of my current guitar students are brothers, eight and ten years old. I used to teach them together, but now I do half an hour with each of them back to back, at the same time every Monday. Both using acoustic guitars - one nylon, one steel.

The ten year-old seems to be picking it up nicely - he's quite confident, learns noticeably quicker than his brother and generally seems quite eager to learn. He plays exclusively with his thumb though, which is the main thing that I can see becoming a hindrance to progress. I've tried to encourage him to use a pick, but he's reluctant to.

The eight year-old started off well and it looked for a while like he was the one who was more into it, but now he seems a little less certain. He's not bad for his age and the amount of time he's been learning though, and has taken to using a pick which is good. I try to teach them both broadly similar things and keep them learning at the same pace.

Thing is, they have no discernible music taste at their age - it doesn't seem like they've really grown up with music being played in the house or in the car constantly. Kids often like weird and wonderful music because they haven't learned to be bothered about what's cool to listen to (for example, I used to listen to shitloads of 70s and 80s pop from the age of six till about ten, when I discovered Eminem). All of that means that I sometimes struggle for what to teach them, unless they specifically ask me - and when they do, it's often film themes like Harry Potter and Mission Impossible.

I've also tried to get them started on chords and scales, but they don't always seem interested - which puts me off trying to push that, because I want them to enjoy the lessons first and foremost. Music should be fun.

One breakthrough happened last week when I taught the ten year-old a couple of chords and he took G, moved it up three frets, got the notes slightly wrong and ended up with Dm over Bb, which we both thought was really cool  

Generally though, I struggle to find stuff to teach these two lads. Anyone got any ideas or experience to share?

octatonic

I had a lot of luck with TV Theme tunes, or any melodies from video games.
Everyone likes to learn the Simpsons theme tune, or the James Bond theme.

Teaching kids is in almost all cases a babysitting job.
You might get one or two over your entire teaching career that ends up taking it beyond the absolute beginner level.

Bucket

octatonic said:

I had a lot of luck with TV Theme tunes, or any melodies from video games.
Everyone likes to learn the Simpsons theme tune, or the James Bond theme.

Teaching kids is in almost all cases a babysitting job.
You might get one or two over your entire teaching career that ends up taking it beyond the absolute beginner level.

James Bond was one of the first things I did with them, back when I was teaching them at the same time.

Hadn't thought of the Simpsons though, so that's something!

Danny1969

I've been teaching a girl called Hannah who's 8 for about 9 months now. She's on a half sized nylon. We started with some easy chords, then the concept of fingerpicking, then a bit of theory. She's now learning where all the notes are on the neck and how to build basic chords from those notes. Hannah mainly uses her fingers but also a pick . I think it's important to teach them to use both. 

I know sometimes people want to learn pacific songs but I think long term your better off teaching a man how to fish rather than giving him a fish so I kind of do that, as in show them how to learn a song rather than break it down bit by bit 

octatonic

I got back in touch with one of my first music teachers a couple of years ago.
I looked him up in the phone book in Australia and we spoke for about 20-30 mins.

I remember thanking him for being so patient with me- I guess I was one of those students that went on to do something with it and he seemed to like that he'd made an impact.

I sometimes come across on the forum as being very theory oriented, but when I started I hated learning theory- I was the typical bratty teenager who resisted any sort of formal learning with music.

When I remember what Rod did with me was to try to teach me things that I was interested in- back then it was Satriani solos- but I had literally no idea what any of the notes were, nor anything about the major scale.
I knew my pentatonic minor and I sort of knew the notes of the fingerboard.

The main thing, I guess, is yes, keep it interesting to them.
Forcing theory onto people who aren't into it will just mean they end up quitting.
They will probably end up quitting anyway- but what you don't want is to discourage someone who might go on to do the real work.

Brad

Bucket said:

The ten year-old seems to be picking it up nicely - he's quite confident, learns noticeably quicker than his brother and generally seems quite eager to learn. He plays exclusively with his thumb though, which is the main thing that I can see becoming a hindrance to progress. I've tried to encourage him to use a pick, but he's reluctant to.

That never harmed Wes Montgomery  although it is something I encounter all too often with students...

Over the years working with hundreds of students that age, it can get pretty tough finding things to do with them, particularly when the majority of them are not into music in a deep way.

As mentioned, theme tunes work a treat, be it from TV or Film - Star Wars has been going down well recently. As you say, you've already had requests for theme tunes so I'd start there. Don't forget nursery rhymes either, you could even combine these with a little sight reading/theory work without it being too heavy and boring. Attention spans are limited.

I just try and find things that will get them excited to learn the instrument. There will always be a song in the charts they like. Simplifying a melody to a song they know can work wonders, even if it's a couple of bars long. A sense of accomplishment is a big thing for kids that age learning the guitar, particularly if they can hear the song they are learning as they play it. 

For instance, say I want to teach E minor Pentatonic (open position). This is great as there are only two notes on each string, and the pattern is pretty achievable. Then I'll show them something in context, if they have seen the Iron Man films, Back in Black is always a winner. Three simple chords which they will have worked on previously, a couple of single note ideas (one using the pentatonic scale they just learned) and it's a tune they probably know and like. WIN! 

pintspiller

octatonic said:
Teaching kids is in almost all cases a babysitting job.

You might get one or two over your entire teaching career that ends up taking it beyond the absolute beginner level.

I nearly gave up playing guitar at one point. I thought teaching guitar was one of the most tortuous ways to earn extra cash!

All I wanted to do was recruit a band at the end of it, but got a load of kids! LOL

Teetonetal

For really young kids, so under 10, you have to get away from thinking like an adult. Most kids want to make noise. They want to play stuff they know, but they are also often lazy (like playing with the thumb because it's instant win), fickle and completely pliable.

First mistake is to let them get sloppy technique because it's easier for you. Either teach finger-style or plectrum but don't let them do what's easy. Otherwise, you will have a nightmare trying to fix it when they do suddenly develop a real interest in music.

TV them tunes, Choruses of Big hits etc were always a win.

Kids like making stuff up. I used to record them a lot - letting them write a chord sequence, which I would then write a bass / drum track to, they loved doing that and I think it showed them how to be creative (just do it). Make up easy pieces that they could play along to. I used to get them drumming on the guitar body (to help understand rhythm.

That said had a couple of students that were pretty serious types and wanted to do the grades. One girl in particular had passed grade 4 by the time she left primary. She liked the books, learning scales etc

octatonic said:

Teaching kids is in almost all cases a babysitting job.
You might get one or two over your entire teaching career that ends up taking it beyond the absolute beginner level.

I disagree, teaching kids is easy, so long as you entertain them. alot mine stuck with me throughout my 5 years at Kent Music School. I had a bunch from primary through to secondary. I reckon over 5 years I had 50 kids who I taught for 3 years or more.

I made sure that first and foremost lessons were fun. I also made damn sure, that those who were either rubbish or not at all wanting to be there got dropped pretty quickly. I used to tell the parents exactly how it was. Most parents do not like wasting money. 

octatonic

Just remembered another one:

Peter Gunn Theme.

octatonic

Teetonetal said:

octatonic said:

Teaching kids is in almost all cases a babysitting job.
You might get one or two over your entire teaching career that ends up taking it beyond the absolute beginner level.

I disagree, teaching kids is easy, so long as you entertain them. alot mine stuck with me throughout my 5 years at Kent Music School. I had a bunch from primary through to secondary. I reckon over 5 years I had 50 kids who I taught for 3 years or more.

I don't think we are saying massively different things here, actually.
By 'babysitting job' I essentially mean that it is less about learning to play a musical instrument- which is a pretty serious pursuit, and more about keeping the kids entertained for the 30 min lesson.

Plectrum

The first song I learned as a child was Puff The Magic Dragon, which was a popular children's song in the early 60s. Fortunately we were taught music at school and I could read notation and play the Recorder before I started playing guitar and no guitar teacher had to have me inflicted upon them 

Winny_Pooh

Themes are a good suggestion.
Ideally songs with simple and memorable parts without too many full chords. Off the top of my head:
Devendra Banhart - little yellow spider (D chord w a lick & Em)
Harry wosname - Lime & the coconut (C7th all the way!)
White Stripes - Seven nation army
White Stripes - we are gonna be friends (3 chords IIRC)
Pink Panther theme, slowly
Mission impossible theme
Emiliana Torrini - Sunny Road 
Police - walking on the moon
Wild Belle - another girl

Roland

An interesting lesson is "How many ways can you make sound from you instrument." It gets them to explore the instrument, which is something that many don't do after the first "this is called a bridge, this is called a fretboard" lesson. It gets them thinking about the difference between thumb, finger or plectrum, and where to pluck the string. It can open up ideas like harmonics. Induced feedback is a revelation to many children: the idea that it's OK to be noisy.

Bucket

Roland said:

An interesting lesson is "How many ways can you make sound from you instrument." It gets them to explore the instrument, which is something that many don't do after the first "this is called a bridge, this is called a fretboard" lesson. It gets them thinking about the difference between thumb, finger or plectrum, and where to pluck the string. It can open up ideas like harmonics. Induced feedback is a revelation to many children: the idea that it's OK to be noisy.

Well, I have shown them stuff like how to make Pacman noises by squeaking a pick down the high strings, they both loved that.