Playing festivals - Soundcheck woes for a newbie.

nick79

I've not been gigging long (Been in my band 6 months, done 6 gigs) so still learning the ropes so to speak. We've done 2 small festivals now and to be honest i'm rapidly going off them.. The first one we did we had a very quick levels check with the guitars but i didn't get a chance to check both clean and dirty channels,let alone tweak any of the eq,  and the second (just this weekend) we didn't even get that. It was literally plug in and go. As a result we didn't play that well and i was fighting my nerves the whole time. 
As i said this is all pretty new to me, so if anyone has any tips for next time to help things go a bit smoother please feel free.

I usually keep my amp setting's roughly the same but i do find i have to tweak them slightly depending on where we are playing and the volume we are at and i find it difficult to adjust them 'on the fly' but i'm guessing i'm just going to have conquer that and get better at it. The biggest problem we had this weekend was no one could hear anything apart from the drums.. Just sounded like a big mess to me up on stage. 

This will probably sound like simple stuff to the veterans out there but any hints/tips gratefully received!

John_P

I think it's quite a big ask for a new band to do those kind of gigs - I depped with one a few weeks back and although they are all good players, that lack of decent monitors and different feeling playing outside really threw them and added lots of nerves. 
Its a lot eas We for a band that has done a ton of gigs.  
Two things that are probably obvious:
- know the parts inside out so you aren't relying on cues from others. 
- use very simple and quick to set up gear, the most basic rig that will do the gig so you have more time to adjust back line or talk to monitor engineers instead of wiring things up.  

digitalscream

My advice would be to not play festivals when you've only got 6 gigs under your belt, because of exactly this - it's incredibly rare that a band at the start or in the middle of the bill will get any more than a line check, so everybody needs to know their gear absolutely inside-out (to the point where you can make blind changes to the EQ and volume and know exactly what it's going to do) and you need to be so well-drilled that dodgy on-stage sound is something you can work around.

I learned this when I played a gig at the O2 in Birmingham. Talk about baptism of fire...we had loads of gigs behind us, but we were totally unprepared for an uncooperative monitor tech who basically abandoned his post and we had nowhere to go but down. In flames.

Danny1969

Ideally if the PA is run right you have a guy out front mixing it so it sounds fine out the front and a guy to the side of the stage mixing the monitors so it sounds fine onstage too. That's how my own company run festivals, the guy out the front can't mix the monitors as he can't hear them and there's generally no time to set them up properly before he starts mixing out front. This is something that irks me so my own monitoring system now splits the vocal mic and the guitar mic and that allows me to control my own vocal and guitar mix regardless of what the PA guys are sending me. That's not gonna help you though

Don't worry too much about surgical EQ and things needing to be just so onstage, just remember where your 2 basic dirty \ clean sounds are on the amp, don't have too much of a volume difference between them, don't go crazy with effects, use much less than you would indoors  and then put all your effort into the playing. It's gonna sound different out the front as the PA guy will put his own EQ on .... so just get some basic sounds for onstage and don't worry too much.

Monitor wise ask for "a bit of everything " in you monitor "but more of my guitar and vocal"  please ........ Just that should get you hearing everything, if there is someone running monitors then you can signal him throughout the gig to turn up \ down certain things but if there's not at least you can more or less hear everything anyway

Drew_TNBD

Every festival I've played, the stage sound was whack as fuck.

ICBM

This will probably sound uncooperative or obnoxious, but in my experience the only foolproof way to deal with monitoring issues is to use a big enough amp that you *will* be heard, and if necessary angle it across the stage rather than pointing it straight out front, so the rest of the band can hear you - just as you would in a rehearsal room. If you mix the whole band to the drums yourselves you will at least be able to play… as long as you can hear the vocals.

If you make sure that the last practice before the gig, you make certain you can get this, using the same gear that you will using, and mark or write down the settings, you have a better chance. If it's provided backline, do your best and pray .

As already said (if you're not already) then use the absolute minimum gear you can possibly get away with - one guitar (not counting a backup), simple pedals, one or two amp sounds. The more you change, the harder it will be to keep a consistent sound.

To be honest I've always enjoyed them, no matter how bad the sound or the provided amps - including having the one I soundchecked with blow up when another band was using it, and having to scratch around for anything else that worked. Just go with the atmosphere and enjoy it, even if you think it sounds terrible. The punters probably won't notice.

Jalapeno

Never had a soundcheck for an outdoor gig or festival (where there's somebody else mixing that is) - a case of can I (the guy at the mixer) hear it - right then let's go.  They've usually got a mix by the 3rd number (if they even bother) - as others have said minimal gear and be self-sufficient if you can.

digitalscream

Drew_fx said:

Every festival I've played, the stage sound was whack as fuck.

I have no idea what that means.

Is it a good thing? A bad thing?

Feckin' young 'uns and their silly-speak...

Danny1969

To be honest there's not much of a reason for no one to be mixing the monitors these days as it's all iPad controlled anyway. It's not like you have to split ever mic feed and run a separate monitor desk like the old days. 

Cirrus

Not sure I can add much that's not already been said but yeah, it's best not to bank on a soundcheck at festivals. Ideally know your settings by heart and are ready to go as soon as you're all plugged in, and you've played enough as a band to be confident even if you can barely hear the other guys - just get closer to the drums if something is really fucked up and you can't hear those!

Then smile, move around, act like you're having fun even if it's a living hell up there. Nobody in the audience knows or cares about your personal musical experience on stage. Just look at the kind of comments you get online when, say, a mic falls on the piano strings at an Adele gig. You get 50 different explanations and everyone judges somebody, so your best bet as a performer is just to power through.

nick79

Thanks guys, don't feel quite so bad about it now if it's pretty much that way for others too. This last gig at the weekend we only had the drums and vocals going through the pa, i had no monitor and i even went through a 4x12 instead of my combo's speaker - Wish i hadn't now as it didn't sound any bigger to me but maybe i just hadn't turned it up enough. 

Next time i'll crank my amp up and wait for them to ask me to turn it down, because we got no feedback from the soundguys and wacthing back a quick vid done on some someones phone my amp was drowned out by the other guitarist. 
Thanks again guys, some good feedback there.

EricTheWeary

In my old band we played a place in Brum that did multi band line ups. You were encouraged to use their backline and the sound guy had no interest in any sound issues on stage. No sound check and to a large extent you played by muscle memory.  My friend Becky saw us a few times at different venues and said we sounded best there. Certainly other bands sounded great from out front (whether they sounded exactly as they would want to is another matter). 
Not sure what the moral of that is other than everything already said -  learn stuff,  simplify your set up and focus on performance and trust it sounds OK out front. 

merlin

I've played a lot at festivals outdoors. What many are saying here is generally true, I particularly like what Cirrus says about acting like you're having fun....and remember, the eye retails more than the ear. 

Sometimes at festivals, we've been up, done our line check and then we just go on and do our thing. Sometimes asking the guy on monitor mix for a "house mix" can work, but often they don't have access to that, so "a bit of everything and just a little more of me" is the best solution. 

My old comrade in arms and friend Mark Rubin once told a bass student of his who asked what he needed to do to become professional said this, "Learn to play everything you know in every key. Then learn to jam along with everything you hear in every key. Then understand that some days you will have a stinking cold or flu and you have to play. And some days you will be onstage and you won't be able to hear anything at all, not even yourself. When this happens, if you really know what you're playing and you can convince the audience that you're having the best time of your life, you'll be in with a chance of becoming a pro". 

Fiftyshadesofjay

Normally for a gig like this you would submit a sheet with your stage plan and a rough idea of what you wanted in each monitor mix. Might not be perfect but will at least give you a fighting chance to hear what you need to. Also you need to be comfortable enough with your gear that your not making large adjustments on the fly. If you're balancing levels and EQing and messing about with pedals then you're definitely not prepared enough. But hey, that's how you learn, we've all been there!

nick79

Yeah i definatly felt a bit out of my depth but you're right it's a learning curve and i'll be more prepared next time. We have another gig coming up this weekend but it's ours so we will have a proper soundcheck and i'm confident things will be better. Our last gig before this festival one was brilliant, at a local club with full stage monitoring, a great sound guy and it was a complete blast. The crowd had a great time and we thrived on the energy. So yeah, more of those please! Haha!

ESBlonde

A couple of old hand tips.

Irrespective of the size of venue/stage always play together at a low volume and rehearse the same way. If needs be, stack your equipment close together on a huge stage to give some critical mass to the sound then do so, but monitors do that anyway. This way you always play and sound the same, the interaction is constant and the 'feel' doesn't vary much. Because you are physically mixing your volumes together it makes the sound engineers job a doddle and he just mics up and off you go with limited sound spill and feedback screach.
Mark your amp and pedal controls in default positions with coloured tape or a strip of masking tape stuck beside it or a chinagraph pencil or whatever. This way a quick glance tells you everything is about right without even turning it on. Sound chech can be just that, are you getting a sound and is the mixer/line check ok.


Setup like this you can go from a cafe gig to glastonbury main stage and back to the kings head with the only difference being the pay check and the size of the audience.

Be nice and polite to any stage crew, they appreciate it more than you know after a long day, and they are trying to make you sound good. Thank them afterwards before going to hang with your drop out mates, they will remember it next time.

You're welcome.

ESBlonde

This is the kind of thing I mean


Also colour code you leads and simplify your connections, trouble shooting becomes simple if it even exists as a problem. Fix any gear issues after the gig way before the next one.

Drew_TNBD

digitalscream said:

Drew_fx said:

Every festival I've played, the stage sound was whack as fuck.

I have no idea what that means.

Is it a good thing? A bad thing?

Feckin' young 'uns and their silly-speak...

UR FACE!

bob21

merlin said:"a bit of everything and just a little more of me" is the best solution. 

I spend quite a lot of time mixing monitors (i'm an engineer full time) - and I really wouldn't advise this.

If you ask me for 'a bit of everything mate' I will assume you have no idea what you're doing, and will give you the mix I think you want. Now, for most inexperienced bands, that actually turns out to be bang on - after all that's the whole point of me being the monitor engineer, I'm good at it!

Because the long and short is you don't want, or need everything... For instance, if you are stood 6' from the drums - you do not need drums. If the lead vocalist wedge is spittingly loud, and it's 3' from your wedge.. you probably don't need much of that. If your bass player has been stupid and brought an 8x10.. You probably aint going to need that. 
The more you have in your wedge, the worse it sounds, and the less loud important stuff will get. I actually get a lot of mileage from turning stuff down in people's mixes when they want the main instrument/voice turned up..
I know all this, and I know that anyone who has spent enough time on real stages with real monitors and engineers knows this.. So therefore, the assumption as earlier..

What is more helpful is to think about what you really need to hear.. If you take cues from the keyboard player - ask for lots of that. If the singer plays an acoustic but it's pretty much a fashion accessory - tell me you don't want it, it will make your mix better.. If you need to hear the other backing vocal because he's the middle part in the 3 part harmony you're singing in - tell me specifically, I can help! Give me some good clues to what you really need, and I can build you a good sounding mix.. Without all the junk that gums it up!

(Obviously having said all that, it applies to wedges only. IEM is a completely different game, and it's quite reasonable to ask for a general mix as you can't hear any of the stage wash/other wedges etc.. Mixing IEMs is like mixing FOH for every person onstage!)

stratman3142

I generally play at a level that matches the drums on stage, but I'll go even lower if I feel we're drowning out the vocals.

If the band don't get a sound check (which happened last weekend) I've got options to adjust the volume on the fly until I get time to adjust the amp.

If I'm too loud I ride the volume pot on my guitar or back off the volume using my volume pedal in my pedal board.

If I'm too quiet I've got two levels of clean (post distortion) boost (3dB and 6dB) in my pedal board. The 3dB is to give a slight lift and the 6dB takes me from rhythm to lead level, or together as an insane 9dB boost. I can use the boosts as a temporary level adjust at the start if we don't get a sound check.

But, even with all that, I'm often riding the volume pot on my guitar.

Danny1969

@bob21

The biggest problem I see and get (as a performer rather than an engineer) is no one is mixing monitors onstage. I've done 7 festival gigs as a guitarist \ keys player this summer and no one has been mixing monitors. The desks have mainly been X32's and that little Midas one plus some QU's ... they all support iPad aps for monitor mixing but no one is doing it. You get bugger all time between changeovers to set up any kind of usable monitor mix and the last thing you want to do is announce over the mic during the show that you need more of this or less of that but sometimes you have to cos no ones there for you

I could understand it if one man was running the PA but the bins and other stuff are always a 2 man lift so there's generally at least 2 of you there. My own company 2020 studios  always has one of us  mixing monitors the side of the stage and one FOH. 

I'm doing another festival (as a guitarist )  on Sat afternoon .... I know who's doing the sound and I know they won't have anyone mixing monitors so I will split the mics myself