Getting slicker/more professional

Vaiai

I'm interested if others have got to that point where you have realised that your band maybe needs to be a bit better at their presentation and slicker between songs etc.

What kind of things have you done when someone is changing instrument i.e. to a dobro (with finger picks to go on etc), or plugging in a harmonica to the same amp as guitar and changing settings etc. I know it's down to the singer in a lot of cases - we are working on her awareness in the set where this happens and moved songs or put them together to try to limit these changes.

We are putting the onus on the person who starts the song to look round and make sure we are all ready and equally if one of us has a technical issue to make it known.

I don't mind chat and banter between songs in a pub but some of the gigs we have coming up require a bit less of that and no fiddling with pedals, noodling between songs etc that we can all be guilty of!

Opinions?

bluechargeboy

My drummer buddy I did a bit of work with a band who had multiple instrument changes (frickin' mandolins). We managed to convince them to order the set list in sane manner to minimise the instrument changes, as you say. So much better. And you can mark settings on pedals/amps etc so you are not trying to remember where they should be set.

Other than that it is to be aware of when the changes are happening and make sure the front person can babble for long enough. This can be rehearsed, it doesn't have to be totally ad-libbed. Get in the habit of looking at each other and communicating on stage.

I think also that a minute of not playing feels like an hour when on stage, so try to not panic too much when nothing much seems to be happening.

And it goes without saying that noodling between songs (or during soundcheck) is unacceptable. Especially for drummers.

webrthomson

bluechargeboy said:

And it goes without saying that noodling between songs (or during soundcheck) is unacceptable. Especially for drummers.

100% totally this - also if you have to tune between every song find a way to do it silently!!!

Vaiai

webrthomson said:

bluechargeboy said:

And it goes without saying that noodling between songs (or during soundcheck) is unacceptable. Especially for drummers.

100% totally this - also if you have to tune between every song find a way to do it silently!!!

I have very good guitars as I hate tuning instability - the other guitarists uses Jags and Flying V etc which look cool but seem to have serious stability issues! I use the Polytune on my board but rarely need to tune - If I do it is silent

Danny1969

The trouble with tuners is no one trust their ears anymore .... after every number people mute their guitar, eyes are down looking at the tuner checking every string ..... If I hear a tuning problem I'll try and correct it during the song and mute and double check after the song but if I don't hear a problem I won't check the tuning at all

@Vaiai I play with some guys more interested in the visual aspect of their instrument rather than the practical ..... I hate that nothing is less cool than a guitar that won't stay in tune

RocknRollDave

My opinion:

You should be prepared to bang out the songs one after the other except where the frontperson takes the time out to interact with the audience - which I think is important to do as long as it isn't overdone. Whoever starts off each song should crack on unless there is a reason not to - and the person who has the problem (tuning has drifted, technical hitch) has the onus on them to make it known before the song kicks in.

If there is a guitar change needed, the front person has to fill that space by talking - It can seem an age but it needn't be. Just a general 'Hello, we are [band name], thank you for having us, lovely venue, here is a song by/ about [insert quick song introduction]' etc Or even 'This song features [insert band member's name] on dobro, which he is just strapping on as we speak...'


I have one guitar change during my set - for a Drop D tuning - which I 'cover' by saying 'this song needs a different guitar but see if you can spot my seemless guitar change here....See? Seemless....' to make up for the fact that I am always all fingers and thumbs when it comes to sorting out the strap.... Meaningless drivel, really, but fills the gap better than silence.

RocknRollDave

Oh one more other trick a previous line- up used for filling between guitar changes: A quick funk jam that the bassist and drummer would kick into. kept people on the dancefloor and then when they saw I was ready, they stop dead together, guitar kicks into the next song and we are off.

Roland

Do I always start a reply by saying "it depends". Well it depends on what we're trying to achieve. Early in the evening we want to build rapport with the audience, and get them interested in staying until the end. So our singer introduce songs, and try to engage the audience in conversation. It's useful to find out who are the gobby ones because they can be relied on to respond.

Later on we aim to keep people in the pub dancing, and so we try to minimise gaps. Normally a quick look round and the drummer counts us In. The second half of our second set runs back to back, and they are mainly guitar introduced songs, so I just keep going.

Vaiai

Great feedback all - it's just stagecraft and reading the crowd which comes with time - we are gigging regularly and every time we learn something new. 

pintspiller

bluechargeboy said:

And it goes without saying that noodling between songs (or during soundcheck) is unacceptable. Especially for drummers.

I was guilty of noodling on bass at a gig where our vocalist spent ages tuning, talking s hit,dropping lyrics. The on-stage sound was very very poor and I did not realise I was as high in the mix. Lol.

I now stand on the tuner between numbers

ESBlonde

I always tell the audience not to look while I'm changing!

thomasross20

I don't think anybody wants to hear one song after another without some sort of breather. 
@Vaiai your band is going where I want mine to go. I think ours is falling apart (for various reasons).
I keep saying, we don't need to learn any more songs - we need to do all the other stuff now! 

Vaiai

thomasross20 said:

I don't think anybody wants to hear one song after another without some sort of breather. 
@Vaiai your band is going where I want mine to go. I think ours is falling apart (for various reasons).
I keep saying, we don't need to learn any more songs - we need to do all the other stuff now! 

Yeah we are not having more than 3 up tempo in a row then giving them a breather with something a bit more tame

Maynehead

Our singer used to take the piss out of us when we're changing guitars, like "he insists on using his special guitar for this one because it makes him feel like more of a man" or "take as long as you want, don't forget to tune up!" etc, etc. We love it and the crowd loves it. 

Vaiai

Maynehead said:

Our singer used to take the piss out of us when we're changing guitars, like "he insists on using his special guitar for this one because it makes him feel like more of a man" or "take as long as you want, don't forget to tune up!" etc, etc. We love it and the crowd loves it. 

Yeah I like that kind of humour and the right crowd will too! But it's down to the singer having that banter ready - we have said she should script some of it so she has something to say - she is really comfortable when a crowd is on our side or all up dancing but in a quieter pub gig with ppl just sitting drinking and maybe watching she isn't so chatty!

Moe_Zambeek

Personally i'm a fan of the non-stop approach as mentioned by a few above, especially with short sets. If it's originals, you're only getting 30-40 minutes so apart from telling the band who you are from time to time, it should be a relentless onslaught of your best tunes I like to have 30 seconds to sip a drink maybe 20 minutes in but beyond that - go for it.

For covers bands, i think it should be much the same really, possibly introduce the songs if you have to but unless your frontperson is particularly charismatic (and lets face it, most aren't) it's probably best just to keep the music going. 

Things I feel set some bands apart from others:
No noise at start of set - band gets on stage, tunes instruments silently (if you have to - you'll have tuned it already 5 minutes beforehand anyway...), singer introduces band, first song starts. Simple.
Tight starts / endings to songs.
Short gaps between songs.
No noodling of any kind between songs, and especially not the cardinal sin of half the band sort of playing a song the audience knows but the rest of the band don't...
Set lists - everyone should have a set list, everyone should know who starts each song too. 
If you want to manage the 'is everyone ready' thing, have the drummer drive the set - they count in each song, they can see everyone on stage and check everyone is ready before starting the click.
Band looks mainly at audience during performance, occasionally at rest of band, not their shoes / guitar neck / pedals / the wall behind the drummer all night.
Making the performance a performance can help with quiet gigs too - you can have a loosely scripted banter element that is more or less the same everywhere, you put on the same performance regardless of where you are. Getting over the feeling of being a knob is the most difficult part of this, and it helps if you have confidence in your band and their material. 

I'm not saying all of these things are easy of course!

From the OPs list, i'd say things like plugging a harmonica into the guitar amp and then having to change all the settings is a total no-no, get an amp for the harp.

I'd also say in general - are guitar swaps *really* necessary? Maybe different in a bluegrass band if you need to go from acoustic to dobro...

Vaiai

Moe_Zambeek said:

Things I feel set some bands apart from others:

No noise at start of set - band gets on stage, tunes instruments silently (if you have to - you'll have tuned it already 5 minutes beforehand anyway...), first song starts. Simple. 
We launch straight in, my guitars are in tune out the case but in the heat there is usually tiny variations - Polytune on the board is first in my chain so acts as a mute and silent tuner.

Tight starts / endings to songs.
We know our endings but they can be a bit "wandering" or fade out rather than solid stabs and stop. Plenty of the songs do have exact endings tho

Short gaps between songs.
This is the main problem but we have started to run pairs of songs together. Setting gear/changing guitars (oh and I never mentioned - loading next song on ipad...) I actually do none of those things apart from a 30 sec guitar swap. To be fair to Billy he has a lot more effects to set and guitars/dobro etc to change to and from.

No noodling of any kind between songs, and especially not the cardinal sin of half the band sort of playing a song
the audience knows but the rest of the band don't...
Sometimes in a pub this can be a bit of fun - but if you do a riff and ppl cheer then you don't play that song it's not so good lol. Billy has a B9 and does the Wedding March on that when setting the sound sometimes - again, in a pub it's no problem - in a packed venue for late night dancing...not so much

Set lists - everyone should have a set list, everyone should know who starts each song too.
(Our set list has Key and who starts or All)

If you want to manage the 'is everyone ready' thing, have the drummer drive the set - they count in each song, they can see everyone on stage and check everyone is ready before starting the click.
Some songs start with just guitar or both guitars (acoustic and electric) or keyboard style sound on guitar (with delay set to specific timing).Rest of the time, agree drummer does it.Told everyone the onus is on them to alert if there is an issue - also said if I am just standing there waiting I'm prob ready...

Band looks mainly at audience during performance, occasionally at rest of band, not their shoes / guitar neck / pedals / the wall behind the drummer all night.
We don't shoe gaze but a bit more activity would be good! Hoping my wireless will allow me to roam more

Making the performance a performance can help with quiet gigs too - you can have a loosely scripted banter element that is more or less the same everywhere, you put on the same performance regardless of where you are. Getting over the feeling of being a knob is the most difficult part of this, and it helps if you have confidence in your band and their material. 
This. Happy with our songs etc - I'm just not comfortable pulling rock poses or guitar faces in a pub at 9pm We are getting better though as enjoying playing and a lot more familiar with the songs so you don't have to concentrate on playing but can grove along a bit!
Went to see my mates in Volts rehearsing and their singer was doing it as if he was at the gig and clapping along telling audience to do so too - was interesting to see but made sense.

From the OPs list, i'd say things like plugging a harmonica into the guitar amp and then having to change all the settings is a total no-no, get an amp for the harp.
He has a Boogie and an Acoustic amp but uses the boogie for the guitar and harp so needs to change settings - the harp really adds to a few songs so trying to find a way to do this - maybe an EQ pedal rather than change amp settings?

I'd also say in general - are guitar swaps *really* necessary? Maybe different in a bluegrass band if you need to go from acoustic to dobro.
We put Dobro at the beginning of the 2nd set so he has it all ready to go. I have one swap and it's so I can use the whammy in a few songs  

Amazing feedback @Moe_Zambeek thanks for writing this up! I've put some comments above but you make some good points. We do 3x45s so we do have time to slow it down or to chat to the crowd a bit - in a 40 min set we'd blast thru a pile of uptempo tracks with no guitar changes etc.

We had a band meeting after rehearsal and discussed these things too - moving set about so when Billy swaps I do mine too but I can use either guitar thru the whole set apart from the 2 numbers that need the whammy action!

Also discussed having 3 or 4 songs we keep so if we get to the end of an up tempo group of songs and the dance floor is packed but One of Us or Brass In Pocket is next, we can make the decision to bump it and grab one from the up tempo choices to keep it going.

A lot to this eh

Teetonetal

Practice the set as you want to perform it, including any stage banter you might want. In my current band we have 3 spots where we always run 3 songs back to back. After a bit of work, it's very slick. and keeps the set moving.

Saying that, I saw Ben Howard on his last tour and they took an age changing instruments between each song, with very little speech, yet still engrossing.

As for the harp, why not put it through the PA? Does it need it's own amp?

Vaiai

Teetonetal said:

As for the harp, why not put it through the PA? Does it need it's own amp?

Oh, there's a thought - not sure if he's using some gain on it in the amp for that dirty harmonica sound but I shall find out!