Chords!!,I know almost nothing about them,question for you lot

Busterthedog

Ok,at 56 I don't have much time left to learn ,I can play lead ok,but do I really need to learn loads of chords?
Question 1,I have a damaged little finger joint on my left hand,can I use a different version of the SAME chord that I find easier to play e.g instead of the G barre chord at the 3rd fret,can I play the open G Chord instead?
Question 2.Do I really need all these A sus diminished 13 add 9 with stabilizers type things?
Thanks in advance for any help/suggestions

octatonic

It is hard to say what you need without seeing you play.
Maybe have a couple of lessons with a professional teacher and have them assess where you are at.

FWIW 56 isn't too late- if you came and studied with me and put in the work then you'd be completely aware of how to construct chords within a few weeks.
Within 2-3 years you could be at a professional level of playing- it is a lot of work though- 2-3 hours a day at the bare minimum.

To your questions:

1. There are about 100+ different ways of voicing chords on the guitar.
Your choices with voicing chords are pretty wide- if you are playing with a bassist you can basically forget playing the root.
If playing a dominant blues you could just play the 3rd and 7th of each chord and it will still sound like a dominant blues progression.
Options are pretty endless- the trick is being able to harmonise the major scale in your head on the fly.
If you have that down then the world is your lobster.

2. It depends on what you are trying to do.
I think every musician should be able to harmonise the major scale- it isn't hard, it doesn't take a lot of work and it gives you a vocabulary with which to inform your playing and communicate with other musicians.

pintspiller

1. Yes.
2. No.

If you want to play along to a cd/mp3 and sound exactly like what you hear, then the answers may be different. But if it is just for you, then do what you find easier if you can't finger things exactly

paul_c2

I'm watching this thread with interest too, I'm starting out and while I'm competent with chords, by no means do I know them all!!!!

One way to approach it is you only need to learn 5 chords - C, A, G, E and D. Once you know these, and by using your brain/memory/logic, you can work out a bunch of variations:

E major --> E minor, E7 (3 variations), Emaj7, Esus4, Em7, EmM7, E9, E#9, probably more

A major --> A minor, A6, A7, Amaj7, Asus4, probably more

C major --> C7, ummmmmm there must be others similar!! C7 can also be played in the form x323x3 and it becomes a moveable (not really a barre, but its moveable chord) eg x212x2 is B7, x434x4 is Db7 etc etc

G major --> G7, a few different variations and voicings too eg 320003, 3x0003 (easier for making it into a barre chord), 320033, 3x0033 (which is actualy G5, no 3rd in it)

D major --> D minor, D7, Dsus4, Dmaj7, Dm7, DmM7, probably more. And a few variaions of D major

So that's 33 chords from 5 "basic" shapes just by altering a note or two within the basic shapes.

In theory all those can be barre chords too, in practice some of them are harder to finger than others so you'd just go for the easiest one in the situation unless a particular voicing/position/tone was needed at that given moment.

Don't forget you could always use a capo too.

StanleyAccrington

CAGED is good. But you only need a minimum of 3 notes to get the 'essence' of a chord (triad). With inversions then that is probably more than enough. 

mike_l

A lot depends on what music you want to play.
Playing metal/heavy rock, mostly power chords will get you by.
Playing pop and rock major and minor chords as well as power chords.
Jazz, (and to a lesser extent prog) this is where the chords with all the embellishments will come in.

Knowing all the chords won't necessarily make you a better guitarist, knowing where to play them will.

Busterthedog

Thanks for all the suggestions,I think I might try and get a few lessons.I do get a bit confused with all this Sus 4 stuff and I iv and V progression stuff I have seen in books and on the web,I get the 1 4 5 thing but then it says the other chords are minor and last chord is diminished?,how do I use this?

paul_c2

Busterthedog said:

Thanks for all the suggestions,I think I might try and get a few lessons.I do get a bit confused with all this I iv and V progression stuff I have seen in books and on the web,I get the 1 4 5 thing but then it says the other chords are minor and last chord is diminished?,how do I use this?

This is where a sound basis in music theory helps - there is a theory behind what and why certain chord progressions "fit" or "work", where others sound different or unusual etc etc. Of course, a composer might be seeking different/unusual. There's something to be said for learning the rules before breaking them though.

Its a big subject but for now have a listen to "So Lonely" by the Police and look up its tab/chords. And have a look at this:

TheBlueWolf

To answer your first question a simple 'yes'. A G Major chord is a G Major, whether you ay the open or barre chord. Given your injury, it's disingenuous to make playing harder.

The CAGED system is great for learning chords and the fretboard but learn the intervals too. 

As for the second question, it depends on what you want to play, so you could probably pass on the ultra fancy sounding chords. I'd suggest learning basic chord theory, to understand the basic groups of chords ( major, minor, augmented & diminished ), but how far you go is your choice.

Danny1969

Step 1 : Just learn where all the notes are on the guitar 
Step 2 : Learn the basic major and minor scales
Step 3 : Learn and use the interval formula to build chords all over the neck .... example a basic C major chord needs a root, a major 3rd and a 5th ....... if you know where all the notes are then there's about 10 different places to play the same thing

I think you need to know how to build chords in all keys and how to embellish them with added 9th's or similar. It' s not a hard thing to learn BUT it's entirely dependent on knowing where all the notes are on a guitar and this is where a lot of tab learnt players are weak as tab teach's fuck all about notes 

viz

I hesitate to write this because it takes no account of the sort of music you want to play! - but the following seems to me to be a reasonable generic sequence for learning chords:


1) Open chords:

E, A, D, G, C

em, am

E7, A7

em7, am7

C7, G7, D7

dm, dm7

B7, F (or Fmaj7)

E7 flat 10 (open and at fret 7. The Hendrix chord.)



2) Barre chords:

Power chords (E-shape and A-shape, on any fret)

E-shaped barre chords: F, G, A and their 7ths

A-shaped barre chords: B, C, D, E and their 7ths

The first couple of flat-key chords: F, Bb and their 7ths. 

The main minors after am and em: bm, gm, dm, c#m, f#m, cm and their 7ths.

All remaining majors and minors as barre chords, plus their 7ths. 



3) Suspended 4ths:

Open chords: Esus4, Asus4, Dsus4, Csus4, Gsus4

All other sus4 chords as barre chords on E-shape and A-shape. 



4) other chords:

Maj7 chords (A-shape, eg Cmaj7, x35453)

Sus2 chords (A-shape, eg Csus2, x35533)



5) Barred inversions:

1st inv & 2nd inv chords from the bottom string (eg E 1st inv, or E/G# - 476454)

1st inv chords from the A string (eg A 1st inv, or A/C# - x4222x)



6) Ninths:

E9 (076777), A9, D9, B9

All other 9 chords



7) Jazzy chords:

Altered chords, eg G-alt (32344x)

Diminished chords

Augmented chords

3rd inversions



8) Everything else.

viz

After you have got 1 and 2 under your fingers you will be able to play all the most common progressions used in many songs. The main popular progressions will include:

1) I-IV-V (blues, bluesy-rock, 70s US rock, etc). Here, as in most of the examples in all the progressions below, any major chord followed by a chord a 4th up, such as many of the V chords, can be played as a dominant 7th: E-A-B7; G-C-D7; A-D-E7; D-G-A7; C-F-G7. In many cases you could actually play all chords as 7ths, particularly in blues. 

2) All the permutations of the above, for example V-IV-I; I-IV-I-V, etc. 

3) I-V-vi-IV (the ubiquitous pop-rock progression used by virtually every modern artist in his/her career): C-G-am-F; G-D-em-C; D-A-bm-G; A-E-f#m-D; E-B-c#m-A. Plus variations thereof, starting at a different starting point, or playing the chords in a different sequence. 

4) ii-V-I (used throughout western music, jazz, pop, rock, classical, you name it, they've done it): dm-G-C; am-D-G; em-A-D; bm-E-A; f#m-B-E.

5) The Andalusian cadence used in flamenco, i-VII-VI-V; plus its friends i-VII-VI, and VI-VII-i (used in melodic rock, Iron Maiden, etc): am-G-F(-E); em-D-C-(B); bm-A-G(-F#); f#m-E-D(-C#); c#m-B-A(-G#). 

6) I-bVII-IV (the flat 7 chord is often used in rock. This progression sometimes has a V at the end before returning to I): D-C-G(-A); E-D-A(-B); A-G-D(-E); G-F-C(-D) - see Back in Black, Sweet Home Alabama, etc. 

7) I-bIII-IV (common in rock, often followed by a V, or as in Smoke on the Water, a flat V): E-G-A-(B); A-C-D-(E); G-Bb-C-(D, or Db for Smoke on the Water). Also the minor version, i-III-iv-V. 

8) The minor progression i-iv-VII-III-VII-ii(dim)-V-i (eg Parisian Walkways, I will survive, etc). Instead of ii(dim) you can play iv: am-dm-G-C-F-bdim (or dm)-E-am.

9) I-II-IV: used in punk a lot. The II is major, which lifts the sound. It can be followed by a V. A-B-D(-E); E-F#-A(-B). 

10) The vi-ii-V-I or VI-ii-V-I used in jazz, jazz blues, etc. It's a ii-V-I with a chord in front. The major VI version is an example of a secondary dominant: am (or A)-dm-G-C; f#m (or F#)-bm-E-A. 

11) circle of 5ths back-cycling (anticlockwise). These progressions are II-V-I. They are like ii-V-I, but the II is major, and is another secondary dominant. They can be preceeded by a VI as above (VI-II-V-I): (A-)D-G-C; (E-)A-D-G; (B-)E-A-D; (F#-)B-E-A; (D-)G-C-F. 

12) circle of 5ths clockwise progressions (eg Hey Joe) VI-III-VII-IV-i (played as I major) C-G-D-A-E. 

13) The modulation to relative minor: I-III-vi. The III is major. The vi is the relative minor of the I, and the route to it is via its dominant. Sometimes followed by IV: E-G#-c#m(-A). 

14) Minor 2nd progressions (I-bII) in metal and flamenco: E-F; B-C, A-Bb. 

15) Aug4, Dim5 or tritone progressions (I-#IV), used in metal: E-A#. 

16) Tritone substitutions (ii-bII7-I), used instead of a ii-V-I in jazz: dm-Db7-C (or Cmaj7). Also secondary dominants, for example II-V-I (used a lot in Bach). 

Try that lot.

Modellista

@viz, that is cool.  Whilst it looks like a daunting list, actually we should all be familiar with the sound of most, if not all those progressions, from songs and tunes we already know, and it's nice to have them all listed together.  If you work through them methodically there's a lot of music in that there post.  Thanks.

The only ones I wasn't really aware of were 13 and 16 - must try and wangle them into a set somewhere.

Modellista

Any room in the list for the maj IV-minor IV shift, as patented by the Beatles and used in Radiohead's Creep?

I-III-IV-IV(min) - E-G#-A-Am

viz

Cheers! 13 is in That's Life, What a Wonderful World, and others. 16 is in loads of jazz stuff. 

viz

modellista said:

Any room in the list for the maj IV-minor IV shift, as patented by the Beatles and used in Radiohead's Creep?

I-III-IV-IV(min) - E-G#-A-Am

Absolutely, and also the old iv-bVI major, often after a normal I-V-iv-IV / I-V-iv-bVII as in the last chorus of Since You Been Gone - G-D-em-C / G-F-em-Eb. 

edit - actually it's after the transposition so it's A-E-f#m-D / A-E-f#m-F. 

Modellista

Loving that Em to Eb in G. A brilliant resolution. 

Busterthedog

Wow,I have learnt so much,thanks to everyone,so much time and effort to help me!.Quick question,some books say that the chords that are NOT the 1,4,5 are all minor chords and the last one is diminished,i.e the 2nd.3rd.6th are minor and the last one is the diminished one but I have a book that says that the other(not the 1,4,5)chords are flat chords and that some are 7th chords?which is correct?

viz

In diatonic music theory, I, IV and V are major chords as they all have a major 3rd. They each have a name: Tonic, Subdominant and Dominant. The V chord is called the dominant because it's the strongest chord, after the Tonic.

Unlike the Tonic and the Subdominant, the Dominant has a minor 7th. When this 7th is played, the chord is known as Dominant 7. It is the only diatonic chord that has a major 3rd and a minor 7th. That 7th is sometimes called a 'flattened' or 'flat' 7th. Perhaps that's what's meant in your book. 

The ii, iii and vi are all minor chords - they have a minor 3rd. Those 3rds are also sometimes called flat 3rds. Perhaps that's also what's meant in your book?