D7 chord - headache

leejayd

I'm still at a low level (beginner) learning chords.   Attempting D7 but I'm finding my fingers really have to be placed with high precision to avoid keeping finger 3 away from string 2.  I can just about do it with my fingers slightly slanted with micro-movements to avoid string 2 (after persevering).  I don't have particularly fat fingers so not blaming my fingers.  I think it's all about technique/practice/ergonomics.  I'm going to stick at it but wondered how other newbies handled this.

I'll be amazed if my muscle memory gets to a level where I can do this on auto-pilot !  

Using an EPI Les Paul Standard (lefty) by the way.  I'm sat quite low at the minute (have a stool on order) with strap and guitar angled slightly up.

Appreciate any suggestions :-) 

JezWynd

Practise: to do or play something regularly or repeatedly in order to become skilled at it.

robinbowes

^^^ What he said.

Or, play it in a different position, eg

• barre on fret 7 plus fret 8 on top string
• F-shape on fret 10 with little finger on fret 13, 5th string

But, mostly just practise

R.

paul_c2

I have a hunch that its impossible for a beginner to cleanly sound many chords initially; but as they become more used to playing, it becomes possible. The reason being that the fingers/callouses (sp?) "toughen up". Initially pressing down on the fretboard squashes the tips of the fingers so they are genuinely "fatter" and inevitibly dampen adjacent strings. As the fingers toughen up, it gradually becomes more like a "tip" that can fret the strings but not interfere with the others. I don't know if its true or not though.....but its what I've experienced myself.

Its a bit subjective but I reckon, approximately, this is an incomplete list of the order of difficulty of sounding chords successfully

E
A
D
G ( as in, 320003) (but you could use 3x0003 much more easily)
C
D7
B7
C7
G7
E barre chord
A barre chord
others...

RandallFlagg

It takes time and patience. I taught myself at 13 and it was a year before I was making noise that could be categorised as a 'tune'. You will get past the physical challenge if you keep trying every day for as long as you can. 

leejayd

Thanks folks.  I'm not giving up. Looking forward to being able to create tunes :-)

slacker

Keep going, I started at 14 gave up, had another go at 16 gave up, finally had a go at 18 and kept at it. BTW I'm 54 now. See Randall Flaggs comment.

Roland

paul_c2 said:

I have a hunch that its impossible for a beginner to cleanly sound many chords initially; but as they become more used to playing, it becomes possible. The reason being that the fingers/callouses (sp?) "toughen up". Initially pressing down on the fretboard squashes the tips of the fingers so they are genuinely "fatter" and inevitibly dampen adjacent strings. As the fingers toughen up, it gradually becomes more like a "tip" that can fret the strings but not interfere with the others. I don't know if its true or not though.....but its what I've experienced myself.

Also, beginners position their fingers less precisely, press too hard, and hold for too long. With experience we learn to press just hard enough, and no more.

fnpt

Just stick at it and you'll be amazed how you will improve, especially at the earlier stages of learning. Practice is indeed the key.

I remember when I first tried to learn A Design for Life by the Manics and was mind blown at how difficult the chord transitions were in the verses. I thought I would never be able to play it cleanly, let alone play it at speed, so left it for a good few years. Last week I decided to revisit it and guess what, I can actually play the darn thing quite cleanly and at speed too.

I still can not play JDB's solos but that's another story.

crunchman

Just check your wrist position.  You want to make sure it's reasonably low.  It's easier to get your fingers at a good angle with the wrist low.  You might need to have the guitar neck reasonably high to do that comfortably without putting your wrist in a bad position.

paul_c2

For the OP: are you following some kind of structured lesson plan, or learning from a book etc? I don't know enough about it myself (I learned/still learning far more randomly!) but I believe there is an optimal order to learn "chord transitions" in, to do the easiest ones first then progress gradually.

Also, I started out with a Les Paul (copy) and found it initially uncomfortable, but have adapted over the couple of months or so I've been playing/learning so far.

Finally, I'm assuming that although you're left handed you have it strung conventionally, just a mirror image left-right to a right hander - eg the lowest E string is at the top of the fretboard. I imagine some chords would be a bit harder to play if it were reversed (and probably, some made easier too).

tone1

Try and get your fingers perpendicular to the fretboard, coming straight down on the strings and not at an angle, this involves dropping your wrist of the fretting hand...just takes time 

leejayd

paul_c2 said:

For the OP: are you following some kind of structured lesson plan, or learning from a book etc? I don't know enough about it myself (I learned/still learning far more randomly!) but I believe there is an optimal order to learn "chord transitions" in, to do the easiest ones first then progress gradually.

I'm following the beginner course on TrueFire (30 day trial).  I have a left hand conventional guitar to avoid the string issue :-) 

I'm toying between going to see a local tutor at least for an initial set of lessons to help me get the ergonomics right early will help in the long run. I don't want to develop bad habits.

Rocker

My suggestion is not to consider chords in isolation, but rather as a group of chords that would/could be used in a song.  Playing in the key of G for example, practice the following chords: G, C, D, D7, E minor, A minor and B minor.  Make the chord changes slow at first, muscle memory, and Yes it will happen, will help speed up the process.  Take your time.  Make sure each string rings out cleanly.

My cents worth.

bluechargeboy

When you are holding down the chord, take a look at your elbow of your fretting hand. Is it clamped to your chest? If so, you need to relax your arm and move your elbow away from your body. I see this often and it makes everything harder.

Rocker

Simply saying 'relax your arm' is easier said than done.  I read in a book that if the player considers how tense his arm is and rates it on a scale of 1 to 10 [with 1 being totally relaxed and 10 being so tense as to be rigid], he deliberately relaxes it to as close to 1 as possible and then reverts to his previous score of tension.  He will always end up more relaxed than when he started.  I understand it is essential that a cellist's bowing arm is relaxed as I am led to believe that this affects the tone.  @Sporky can you please confirm this.

*Edit: thinking about this, it may involve the player tensing his arm as much as possible then trying to revert to the previous score of tension.  It is one or the other, easy to try both and find out.

BahHumbug

To the OP, a couple of points.
Firstly, when you start learning an instrument, or in fact any new complex skill, it's gonna be tough.  As the other guys have said it takes a lot of practice to get the hang of even the most rudimentary stuff.  Most of us have gone through the same pain.  Hang in there.

Secondly, the bit that rarely gets mentioned but is very important.....relaxation and posture.  Before fighting with whatever chord it is, get your self comfy.  This doesn't necessarily require a fancy stool.  It requires you to look at yourself and honestly get comfortable, spot any muscle tension and let it go.  Then start playing.

good luck

mike_l

1 stick at it.
2 set the strap to support the guitar when you're seated, Do not adjust the strap if/when you start playing standing.
3 practise with a metronome.
4 short daily regular practise is better than 1 long weekly session.
5. enjoy

Sporky

Rocker said:

I understand it is essential that a cellist's bowing arm is relaxed as I am led to believe that this affects the tone.  @Sporky can you please confirm this.

I'm only 8 months into cello, so no expert, but being relaxed is important in general - both arms. The bow hold is fairly floppy most of the time.

mikeypfc23

slacker said:

Keep going, I started at 14 gave up, had another go at 16 gave up, finally had a go at 18 and kept at it. BTW I'm 54 now. See Randall Flaggs comment.

Blimey you started at the same age as me and I am also 54 now. How spooky is that!

Rocker

Sporky said:

Rocker said:

I understand it is essential that a cellist's bowing arm is relaxed as I am led to believe that this affects the tone.  @Sporky can you please confirm this.

I'm only 8 months into cello, so no expert, but being relaxed is important in general - both arms. The bow hold is fairly floppy most of the time.

@Sporky, I have edited my post about this.  I may have it wrong, as far as I can remember it is tensing the arm as much as possible then reverting to the original tension score.  Sorry for the long winded description.