Who knows about late '70s ES-335s?

TheBigDipper

A neighbour has asked me to help them sell their late fathers ES-335. He died several years ago and it hasn't been played since then. I know very little about these guitars, I'm a Fender sort of guy, but I'm sure someone here does! 

I'll be getting some pix later, but what I do know so far is this...

It's a black ES-335TD. There's a sticker inside the top f-hole that says so. The serial number tells me it was built at Kalamazoo in mid-1978. The guitar plays nicely (acoustically - amp test to follow). It has a trapeze tailpiece, Grover machine heads (were these replacements?), a black nut (which I'm guessing isn't original?), decent frets yet some fretboard wear. The case is unbadged/unbranded, yet looks like others I've seen on eBay with other ES-335s up for sale. There is no scratchplate fitted. I need to recheck for screwholes to see if there ever was one. Were scratchplates an option or supplied in the case but the customer/dealer fits it in 1978? There isn't as much wear and tear on this guitar as you'd expect for 1978, but it may not have been gigged too much.

What do I need to know to help my neighbour value it properly before putting it up for sale? (I like it but have other plans for my dosh). 

Ta for help.

guitars4you

There was also a 335 Pro around this period, but easy to tell as these had no pick-up covers

335's of this period generally did not have Grovers - they had a metal tulip buttons and I think built by Schaller, but still 2 screw holes per tuner, like an old Kluson, but still say Gibson on them - Trapeze tail piece is right - should have an additional 2 way switch for coil tap option - pick guard would be factory fitted (black) - A good clean example can fetch up to 2K on a private sale with original case and features - These were effectively the last 335 before they went back to the dot version around 81/82

pics will help to evaluate further

ESBlonde

go to www.es-335.org and have a look. Although LPs got a bed Rep during the Norlin (70s) era, this seems to have had a lesser effect of the 335s etc. apart from the paddle sized headstock. Consequently prices don't fall as hard as the lesters from the late 60s. Post Norlin 335s were called reissues and are well regarded (I think from 1982)? They tend to have a skinny neck which is less fashonable these days.

Also  lespaulforum.com has a forum called other gibsons. There are some very knowledgable folks that hang about there. Don't ack like a twat, tell them the situation and they will likely lead you through the issues and values in a sensible and knowledgable way. Otherwise search the site for norlin era 335, grab a coffee and have a read.

ESchap

Does it have a switch on the lower (treble side) horn?   Tuners should be Gibson branded Schaller Tulips with a single offset screw into the back of the headstock, if its got Grovers now, there will be holes where the schaller's were secured.   I think they did come with pickguard fitted. It may have had a brass nut fitted originally, Gibson started doing that in 1978.

TheBigDipper

Thanks for the replies, everyone. Here's what I now know.

The guitar is a genuine 1978 ES-335, but it's been worked on. The original finish was tobacco sunburst - the black finish was done later. It's been done well enough - you need to look very closely to realise it. A scratchplate was fitted originally, but has been removed and the screwholes holes filled. Very close inspection with a bright light shows the filling for the scratchplate screwhole next to the neck has sunk slightly. There is a similar sunken repair visible by one of the Grovers on the headstock, confirming they are replacements. I've asked Gibson if they can tell me what the original nut was for this guitar, but it certainly wasn't the black one that's fitted! It still has the coil tap switch on the lower horn. 

As the fretboard shows some wear but the frets do not, I'm guessing this was probably once a well-used guitar with a battle-scarred finish. The fretboard wear is similar to the varnish wear you see on Fender necks, but they are also slight depressions in the surface. Playability and intonation is unaffected. The back of the neck is smooth. I'm not a light pressure player, so the person who wore in those depressions must have really pressed down hard! 

All the electrics work properly. The pickups look like standard covered Gibson humbuckers and have a dull patina that makes me think they're original. 

So, can anyone suggest what value my neighbour might put on this to sell at a fair price for her and the future buyer? A decent players guitar, but clearly not a collectors item. 

Many Thanks, N

guitars4you

based on the refin and above info £1200 tops with a case - some might make a case for less but you can't buy any Gibson 335 based guitar for less than that so even with a refin someone gets a lot of guitar for £1200 - also depends on how good the refin is - Pro quality nitro job, with 'orange peeling or a tin of Halfords paint home job, or even somewhere in between - I based my £1200 on a good refin so subtract further if not good

The replacement tuners are not really a big issue as many change to Grovers

Gagaryn

With the refin I reckon probably about £1300 - 1400. I'm basing this on the fact I bought something similar, a 1979 ES347 a few years back for £1600, in great condition, without the changes and refin. I've seen similar sell for similar prices in the last few years. I've also seem similar advertised for a lot more but they didn't sell.

John_P

I'd love to see some pictures of this guitar.  

TheBigDipper

John_P said:

I'd love to see some pictures of this guitar.  

Once it's been cleaned up, I'm probably going to put it up for sale here on their behalf. They'll set the price and I'll just facilitate the ad for them. There are no photos at the moment.

Iamnobody

This is a YOB guitar for me but the refin has put me off. If it goes at the right price I might be interested in it as a bit of a project...

John_P

TheBigDipper said:

John_P said:

I'd love to see some pictures of this guitar.  

Once it's been cleaned up, I'm probably going to put it up for sale here on their behalf. They'll set the price and I'll just facilitate the ad for them. There are no photos at the moment.

I'll keep an eye out for it - sounds very interesting. 

TheBigDipper

Iamnobody said:

This is a YOB guitar for me but the refin has put me off. If it goes at the right price I might be interested in it as a bit of a project...

Wait until the owners put it up for sale before starting your negotiation! 

Iamnobody

TheBigDipper said:

Iamnobody said:

This is a YOB guitar for me but the refin has put me off. If it goes at the right price I might be interested in it as a bit of a project...

Wait until the owners put it up for sale before starting your negotiation! 

I wasn't aware I had! I haven't even seen it yet...just expressed an interest if it gets advertised here at a decent price.

TheBigDipper

Iamnobody said:

TheBigDipper said:

Iamnobody said:

This is a YOB guitar for me but the refin has put me off. If it goes at the right price I might be interested in it as a bit of a project...

Wait until the owners put it up for sale before starting your negotiation! 

I wasn't aware I had! I haven't even seen it yet...just expressed an interest if it gets advertised here at a decent price.

I know - I'm just fooling around. I'm just interested in helping the owner sell it easily and without any stress. That means setting the price right beforehand, which is why I'm so grateful for the advice I've been given on this thread. 335s aren't my thing.  

I suspect it will be up for sale by the weekend.

Jimbro66

For a guitar of that year and in the described condition with no other issues I'd suggest an asking price of say £1,350 and be prepared to be flexible.

All ES335s have been ok over the decades but the seventies models are perhaps the least desirable. Norlin were making too many compromises to cut production costs. It was only in mid '81 that quality picked up again - still under Norlin, who owned the brand until 1986.

An 81/82 sunburst/cherry in good original condition should fetch £2k or more, £2.3k+ for a blonde, but a seventies non-original example won't command anything like as much.

TheBigDipper

After a bit of reflection, the owner has decided not to sell this guitar. She's not ready to let it go. Thanks to all for helping me help her, anyway. 

Gassage

@shugz ;

TheBigDipper

Thinking about selling one of my guitars and realised I never closed the loop on this thread (I know you were all holding your breath, too!) 

At Christmas, the owner decided to sell the 335 after all. As it happens, my new-ish neighbour played it, bought it (£1,200) and is a very happy man. Someone's going to burst a blood vessel here when I explain that he told me the 335 had cured his GAS for a vintage Tele......  

Thanks again for the pricing advice, everyone. I'm going to ask again in an new thread - one of my acoustics this time.