'Best' way to learn Music Theory

paul_c2

Bygone_Tones said:

Do the classical guitar grades with ABRSM.  It ticks all 4 of the aims you mentioned.

Would need to be done on nylon-strung classical guitar.

fretmeister

The supposed Rock School exams are a waste of time.

Our local music school (classical) has refused to do them. Any syllabus that can award a Grade 8 without compulsory sight reading is inadequate.

When I looked into it I discovered that I could pass the Trinity Rock School Grade 7 without study.

Yet when I play with the local orchestra I'm well out of depth at Grade 3 sight reading. 

paul_c2

fretmeister said:

The supposed Rock School exams are a waste of time.

Our local music school (classical) has refused to do them. Any syllabus that can award a Grade 8 without compulsory sight reading is inadequate.

When I looked into it I discovered that I could pass the Trinity Rock School Grade 7 without study.

Yet when I play with the local orchestra I'm well out of depth at Grade 3 sight reading. 

Interesting, I've never seen an orchestra (ok well once...) with an electric guitar in it; also barely any orchestra or concert band pieces have electric guitar parts. Which parts are you playing on the guitar?

Both Trinity and Rockschool exams don't require sightreading for their electric guitar exams (at any grade). When other exams do have sightreading (ie other instruments), basically the requirement is sightreading 2 grades lower than the exam being undertaken. (G1 and G2 have other instrument-specific guidelines which simplify the requirement here).

fretmeister

I'm a bassist.

stratman3142

fretmeister said:

The supposed Rock School exams are a waste of time.

Our local music school (classical) has refused to do them. Any syllabus that can award a Grade 8 without compulsory sight reading is inadequate.

When I looked into it I discovered that I could pass the Trinity Rock School Grade 7 without study.

Yet when I play with the local orchestra I'm well out of depth at Grade 3 sight reading. 

I purchased the Rock School books because the were suggested for my daughter's course. They seem to be well thought out in terms what would would benefit guitarists for rock/pop/funk and (simple) jazz type styles in the real world. But obviously not directed at classical musicians.

I would have found the material very useful when working stuff out for myself many many years ago.

fretmeister

stratman3142 said:

fretmeister said:

The supposed Rock School exams are a waste of time.

Our local music school (classical) has refused to do them. Any syllabus that can award a Grade 8 without compulsory sight reading is inadequate.

When I looked into it I discovered that I could pass the Trinity Rock School Grade 7 without study.

Yet when I play with the local orchestra I'm well out of depth at Grade 3 sight reading. 

I purchased the Rock School books because the were suggested for my daughter's course. They seem to be well thought out in terms what would would benefit guitarists for rock/pop/funk and (simple) jazz type styles in the real world. But obviously not directed at classical musicians.

I would have found the material very useful when working stuff out for myself many many years ago.

Quite possibly.

But these days I get given sheet music 2 mins before I'm supposed to rehearse it.

paul_c2

Guess how music teachers formally teach someone how to sight read....they plonk it in front of them and say "go!" Its one of those things where its mostly practice/familiarisation, I don't think there's any magic trick or skill involved. If you're used to reading music, and do it regularly, its a non-issue.

SimpleSimon

paul_c2 said:

Guess how music teachers formally teach someone how to sight read....they plonk it in front of them and say "go!" Its one of those things where its mostly practice/familiarisation, I don't think there's any magic trick or skill involved. If you're used to reading music, and do it regularly, its a non-issue.

which is why i've thought perhaps piano lessons might be of benefit as I will learn that element away from the guitar. It might in fact be quicker?

paul_c2

I'm honestly not sure - after all you'd be taking on another instrument - but if its reading you wished to focus on, piano makes sense as the "other" instrument because it doesn't present the challenge to sound the notes that, eg French Horn, does. And also it would mean you learn both bass and treble clef. I'd say for a guitarist, obviously treble clef is the one to focus on, but reading bass clef is also useful. (So don't take up the viola!)

In an ideal world you'll be able to find a guitar teacher who reads music, and can teach you to read music.

I know its a bit like teaching someone to swim by pushing them into the sea, but have you tried to read music on guitar? Do you know the basics (like, what the symbols mean, what note the E string is on the treble clef, or to put it another way where written middle C is on the guitar, etc)?

SimpleSimon

I know what your saying about learning 'another' instrument. I do know the basics yes. I guess finding a good guitar tutor would probably be the starting point.

stratman3142

fretmeister said:

But these days I get given sheet music 2 mins before I'm supposed to rehearse it.

Needing to have to do something has got to be the best motivation for learning it. I can understand why sight reading is important to you.

Despite a few attempts, I've never managed to master sight reading guitar music, apart from fairly simple monophonic parts and chord charts. I think it's because I've never really had to do it. 

I played for a band doing covers of James Bond theme music where it was necessary to use charts, given the way the parts were precisely orchestrated. But for that I got advance copies of the Sibelius files so I could prepare by looking at the charts and listening to the parts as well. Then the charts were an (essential) reminder at the gigs.

I definitely think it's worth getting into notated music, even if that doesn't stretch to full-on sight reading. I do a lot of transcribing. Also, I used to notate arrangements (including brass parts) for a covers band I played in a while back.

At best I would class my reading as 'fairly quick deciphering' rather than 'sight reading'.

DulcetJones

After about 20 years of rockin' out by ear I learned classical technique and theory/sight reading on my own using the Royal Conservatory books.  I eventually sat for the grade 5 classical guitar exam and passed.  This gave me some credentials at the music school I was already teaching at and got me some gigs that were out of my reach before(some studio work and some playing guitar in the "pit" at live plays, all great experiences).  It has also expanded my grasp on composing music.

fretmeister

Top tip.

Keep lots of sharp pencils. So when the brass and wind are trying to tune up - write some notes on the paper. Including the note names if you have to!

fretmeister

paul_c2 said:

I'm honestly not sure - after all you'd be taking on another instrument - but if its reading you wished to focus on, piano makes sense as the "other" instrument because it doesn't present the challenge to sound the notes that, eg French Horn, does. And also it would mean you learn both bass and treble clef. I'd say for a guitarist, obviously treble clef is the one to focus on, but reading bass clef is also useful. (So don't take up the viola!)

In an ideal world you'll be able to find a guitar teacher who reads music, and can teach you to read music.

I know its a bit like teaching someone to swim by pushing them into the sea, but have you tried to read music on guitar? Do you know the basics (like, what the symbols mean, what note the E string is on the treble clef, or to put it another way where written middle C is on the guitar, etc)?

I've had useful lessons with a pianist while I'm playing bass.

I'm not learning piano and there are no transposing issues. The only difference is how the note is generated. They are not lessons about technique (I'm not changing that after 27 years playing), only about playing the right note for the right duration and recognising the other written instructions.

SimpleSimon

fretmeister said:

I've had useful lessons with a pianist while I'm playing bass.

I'm not learning piano and there are no transposing issues. The only difference is how the note is generated. They are not lessons about technique (I'm not changing that after 27 years playing), only about playing the right note for the right duration and recognising the other written instructions.

Exactly. I perhaps need to separate the two distinctly, maybe pursuing some piano lessons to get my sight reading going and some guitar lessons to help to get to where I want to go on guitar.

Bygone_Tones

I dont understand why you dont want to learn classical guitar, yet are happy to learn piano instead, when it is your guitar playing you want to improve. A lot of the stuff you will learn for classical grades will massively improve your electric playing.

Get yourself a cheap classical and take a couple of lessons, if you dont like it then just ditch it.

Good at sight reading on a piano does not equal good at sight reading on guitar.

SimpleSimon

Bygone_Tones said:

I dont understand why you dont want to learn classical guitar, yet are happy to learn piano instead, when it is your guitar playing you want to improve. A lot of the stuff you will learn for classical grades will massively improve your electric playing.

Get yourself a cheap classical and take a couple of lessons, if you dont like it then just ditch it.

Good at sight reading on a piano does not equal good at sight reading on guitar.

I've never mentioned not wanting to learn classical guitar. Its certainly an option. I doubt I would otherwise ever play classical guitar however, whereas I would potentially play some piano as it would fit in with my wider musical plans. You make a fair point regards sight reading on piano versus guitar.

viz

^ agreed, or join a choir. Singing and playing piano are great ways of learning about music.