Vintage Vs Modern

DamianP

The best guitars that have ever been made are being made right now.  

IvisonGuitars

Having admired your work for a long while @DamianP, I'm intitled to agree with you!

stonevibe

I'm always suspicious of vintage instruments that aren't played in. 

High chance it will be a lemon.

ICBM

stonevibe said:

I'm always suspicious of vintage instruments that aren't played in. 

High chance it will be a lemon.

At the very least it probably will be when you take it out of the case the first time. Many come alive after being played for a while, or even just hung on the wall in a shop where they pickup up vibrations from all the other instruments and amps. You might think I'm joking, but I'm really not .

I've lost count of the number of near-mint guitars I've played which have been quite lifeless when they first come into the shop or when someone I know buys it, but after a few months they really sound a lot better.

strtdv

I'm sure there are better investments that guitars, unless you happen to get a good deal on a 50's strat or tele or something. If you're paying top dollar for it when you buy it you can say goodbye to any return on it when you sell it, the market is nowhere near what it was 7 years ago. 

Give it 15 years or so (and you've got to baby the guitar for those 15 years) and you may get a decent return, but the market is fickle and it's not guaranteed. 

Conversely when you buy a player grade guitar you're not likely to get the same return on it anyway.

If I had £15k to "invest" in a guitar I'd but a nice fender custom shop strat for £2500 and put the remaining £12500 in an actual investment..

stonevibe

ICBM said:

stonevibe said:

I'm always suspicious of vintage instruments that aren't played in. 

High chance it will be a lemon.

At the very least it probably will be when you take it out of the case the first time. Many come alive after being played for a while, or even just hung on the wall in a shop where they pickup up vibrations from all the other instruments and amps. You might think I'm joking, but I'm really not .

I've lost count of the number of near-mint guitars I've played which have been quite lifeless when they first come into the shop or when someone I know buys it, but after a few months they really sound a lot better.

The 'old trick' of placing your guitar in front of your stereo speakers when your not playing it is something we did as kids.

ICBM

strtdv said:

I'm sure there are better investments that guitars, unless you happen to get a good deal on a 50's strat or tele or something. If you're paying top dollar for it when you buy it you can say goodbye to any return on it when you sell it, the market is nowhere near what it was 7 years ago. 

Give it 15 years or so (and you've got to baby the guitar for those 15 years) and you may get a decent return, but the market is fickle and it's not guaranteed. 

Conversely when you buy a player grade guitar you're not likely to get the same return on it anyway.

If I had £15k to "invest" in a guitar I'd but a nice fender custom shop strat for £2500 and put the remaining £12500 in an actual investment..

I'm not sure about that. I've sold or passed on non-collector-grade vintage guitars which have subsequently done pretty well in investment terms. eg...

A '57 Les Paul Special sold in the early 90s for £1250 (fair price at the time) - probably worth almost ten times that now even with the repaired headstock crack.

A '54 Les Paul Custom not bought for £3,750 in 1999 that would probably be £20K at today's prices even though it had been refretted with big frets (which actually improved it massively as a player).

Whether they'll continue going up at the same rate or not, I don't know - at every time in the past when I've thought they won't, they subsequently did!

I do regret these two in particular, but there is a silver lining… would you gig with a 10-20 grand guitar? Even one with an already broken headstock…

No, I wouldn't either.

fretfinder

ICBM said:

A '57 Les Paul Special sold in the early 90s for £1250 (fair price at the time) - probably worth almost ten times that now even with the repaired headstock crack.

I think 'almost ten times' as much is a tad optimistic IMHO. New Kings Road Guitars have a 59 Special with no neck break for £4,995.

ICBM

fretfinder said:

ICBM said:

A '57 Les Paul Special sold in the early 90s for £1250 (fair price at the time) - probably worth almost ten times that now even with the repaired headstock crack.

I think 'almost ten times' as much is a tad optimistic IMHO. New Kings Road Guitars have a 59 Special with no neck break for £4,995.

I think '57s (single cut) are worth a fair bit more, although I could be wrong. Even if so, it's quadrupled in value. Not much else has done that since the early 90s, except maybe houses. (And guitars haven't got the economy into the same sort of mess! )

ThePrettyDamned

ICBM;135575" said:

fretfinder said:



ICBM said:A '57 Les Paul Special sold in the early 90s for £1250 (fair price at the time) - probably worth almost ten times that now even with the repaired headstock crack.





I think 'almost ten times' as much is a tad optimistic IMHO. New Kings Road Guitars have a 59 Special with no neck break for £4,995.





I think '57s (single cut) are worth a fair bit more, although I could be wrong. Even if so, it's quadrupled in value. Not much else has done that since the early 90s, except maybe houses. (And guitars haven't got the economy into the same sort of mess! )

That's what they want you to think...

fretfinder

ICBM said:

fretfinder said:

ICBM said:

A '57 Les Paul Special sold in the early 90s for £1250 (fair price at the time) - probably worth almost ten times that now even with the repaired headstock crack.

I think 'almost ten times' as much is a tad optimistic IMHO. New Kings Road Guitars have a 59 Special with no neck break for £4,995.

I think '57s (single cut) are worth a fair bit more, although I could be wrong. Even if so, it's quadrupled in value. Not much else has done that since the early 90s, except maybe houses. (And guitars haven't got the economy into the same sort of mess! )

True, although banks' misbehaviour at the corporate level has done as much as house price increases to wreck the economy I believe!

Skipped

I like player grade vintage guitars.
To justify the value of said guitar there is no need to consult a price guide. Just hand the guitar to the guy who wants to buy it. The only person who can feel happy with a vintage guitar that simply cannot have the rewiring (that it needs) is the collector who does not play.

Here is a question for you. What is Joe Bonamassa going to do when his 'Bursts need a refret? (All of them)
:-O

fretfinder

Skipped said:

Here is a question for you. What is Joe Bonamassa going to do when his 'Bursts need a refret? (All of them)
:-O

If he gigs them he'll get them refretted, if he doesn't he won't (as they probably won't need it).

IvisonGuitars

I think I remember him talking on some gear/rig rundown type video that he treats them as players and if they need attention to keep them usable then he'd do it...

I started this thread to see what the general consensus between Vintage vs Modern would be and there's been some interesting points. I do think that build quality and luthier skills are the best they've ever been currently (with certain makers) so why does a 'vintage' guitar hold so much appeal?

I've played a few vintage guitars and owned two mid '60's SG's, both were average players at best...

breadfan

fretfinder said:

Skipped said:

Here is a question for you. What is Joe Bonamassa going to do when his 'Bursts need a refret? (All of them)
:-O

If he gigs them he'll get them refretted, if he doesn't he won't (as they probably won't need it).

I'm quite sure he said he's already had one of them refretted. 

IvisonGuitars

An update of sorts for anyone who's interested :-)

I took a trip on Saturday to my nearest Vintage guitar emporium to try out a couple of guitars I had my eye on.

First up was an early '58 DC Junior in Cherry. Very clean, almost too clean for the year but not a bad player, I struggled with intonation and tuning a bit but generally OK. Not £4k ok though IMO.

I was then given a mint '60 Epiphone Coronet to try. Another £4k guitar but What a guitar! Made the junior sound like it was under a blanket! A really raw, rock n' roll machine, almost Telecaster on Steriods. I LOVED the sound of it but the neck was slim/wide/flat and if there's one thing I hate it's a slim/wide/flat neck. Again, tuning was not great but that could be put down to differences in temperature from where I was to where they were stored to a point.

Also tried a 2013 Esquire relic by a luthier (who's name I didn't know and have now forgotten) and this was the best player of the bunch, a real joy to play, balanced output, no tuning issues and felt great.

Then I came home and got out my 2012 JXG '57 Replica and it played better than any of them IMO! Perhaps it's better the devil you know and I'm just familiar with it....

...or perhaps not...perhaps we really are in the golden age of guitar building?

The journey continues... :-)