From valve amps to Atomic Amplifire

jaysmith

I'm looking towards running an Atomic Amplifire straight into the P.A., in stereo, for my new 3 piece rock covers band.
   A few reasons for this are that it will be a lot easier for me to transport everything (including P.A.) to and from gigs, as I will be using a Yamaha DXR 10 for monitoring guitar and my vocals.
Also, I have been wondering for a while if it is sometimes a waste of time taking valve amps to some smaller pub gigs in the first place as they are often hardley ticking over due to the volume issue and not being run to their full potential. Even the lower watt amps. Therefore, the desired tone or sustain is not being acheived.
   I have run a direct system before, this was about 20 years ago and I was using a Rockman XPR stereo preamp. Compared to today's tech the Rockman can't compete, but the sound of super wide stereo guitar in a live rock band at reasonable volume had many advantages over a conventional amp set up.

John_P

I've been very impressed with the sounds from the amplifire and foh engineers have only made positive comments. 
As thry improve the software and effects side of it, the AF should get even better.    Great piece of gear for the money. 

monquixote

I've been doing exactly this recently and found it was really effective and as with John_P I got a lot of compliments on my tone. (More so than when I was using a valve amp). If you do any gigs where an amp is required then they also work really well into a power amp.

I'd also suggest considering in ear monitors as well as that will completely remove feedback issues and give you more floor space in tight venues. 

I've just left my current band and I'm not planning on gigging for a while so I'd consider selling my Amplifire if you were interested.

Alnico

monquixote said:

I've been doing exactly this recently and found it was really effective and as with John_P I got a lot of compliments on my tone. (More so than when I was using a valve amp). If you do any gigs where an amp is required then they also work really well into a power amp.

I'd also suggest considering in ear monitors as well as that will completely remove feedback issues and give you more floor space in tight venues. 

I've just left my current band and I'm not planning on gigging for a while so I'd consider selling my Amplifire if you were interested.

I''ve been looking at IEM's

Are they *That* good?
I take it they feed from the PA so if i'm using a traditional amp i would have to have it mic'd?
Is that how they work or have i missed something? Is it an overall monitor of the whole band? Vocals?

Never used them so not trying to sound thick, although to fair that's not difficult for me.
EDIT:
Like when i hi-jack a thread like this without strictly realising i've done it !
My apologies - Nick PM me if you want to.

monquixote

Alnico said

I''ve been looking at IEM's

Are they *That* good?
I take it they feed from the PA so if i'm using a traditional amp i would have to have it mic'd?
Is that how they work or have i missed something? Is it an overall monitor of the whole band? Vocals?

Never used them so not trying to sound thick, although to fair that's not difficult for me.

It's horses for courses. 

When you get a decent monitor mix you can hear everything perfectly. If the monitor mix is wrong then you are buggered. (You need a desk that can provide a monitor mix and everything mic'd or DIed)

You don't end the gig with ringing ears, but you don't get the excitement of the live atmosphere which some people really don't like.
Another plus is that you don't need wedge monitors so you have less crap to cart around and the stage volume can be lower so you don't tend to have feedback.

Alnico

Thanks man, I'll look into them.

jaysmith

Amplifire is coming next week. i played a gig with my other band last night , my valve amp mic'd up by the in house PA engineer and was told to keep my volume low as he would bring it through the PA instead... i tried to explain that valves need to be driven reasonably to sound good, i wasn't suggesting to play at deafening levels by no means... anyway i had a shite amp sound all night at a volume you could almost talk over.... this is another reason to get the Atomic... what is the point of lugging round a valve amp only to have it ticking over and not running properly... they just aren't a practical piece of equipment to use in these situations...

monquixote

One thing you have to consider with the Amplifire and direct boxes in general is if the volume thing is really about "valves working" or the acoustic coupling between guitar and amplifier. 
The latter applies equally to modellers. 

jaysmith

A modeller can simulate a valve amp being run even at flat out volume and with all the pleasing  power amp sustain/ compression that comes with this, but at a reasonable  physical volume that can be controlled using a PA / monitors etc... a "real" valve amp however actually has to be at a certain volume for the power tubes to act this way...most of the time this is too loud for a lot of "live" situations

martinw

jaysmith said:

... a "real" valve amp however actually has to be at a certain volume for the power tubes to act this way...most of the time this is too loud for a lot of "live" situations

Depends on the power output of the amp.

monquixote

jaysmith said:

A modeller can simulate a valve amp being run even at flat out volume and with all the pleasing  power amp sustain/ compression that comes with this, but at a reasonable  physical volume that can be controlled using a PA / monitors etc... a "real" valve amp however actually has to be at a certain volume for the power tubes to act this way...most of the time this is too loud for a lot of "live" situations

Thats true to a point, but part of the sustain comes from the acoustic coupling of the amp to the guitar. The AxeFX manual recommends not to record on headphones for example.

professorben

jaysmith said:

Amplifire is coming next week. i played a gig with my other band last night , my valve amp mic'd up by the in house PA engineer and was told to keep my volume low as he would bring it through the PA instead... i tried to explain that valves need to be driven reasonably to sound good, i wasn't suggesting to play at deafening levels by no means... anyway i had a shite amp sound all night at a volume you could almost talk over.... this is another reason to get the Atomic... what is the point of lugging round a valve amp only to have it ticking over and not running properly... they just aren't a practical piece of equipment to use in these situations...

At that point you politely slap the sound engineer, point at the snare drum and say " I'll match my volume to that you arse" and if you need only a smidge through FOH that's what you do. 

firepaulmusic

jaysmith said:

Amplifire is coming next week. i played a gig with my other band last night , my valve amp mic'd up by the in house PA engineer and was told to keep my volume low as he would bring it through the PA instead... i tried to explain that valves need to be driven reasonably to sound good, i wasn't suggesting to play at deafening levels by no means... anyway i had a shite amp sound all night at a volume you could almost talk over.... this is another reason to get the Atomic... what is the point of lugging round a valve amp only to have it ticking over and not running properly... they just aren't a practical piece of equipment to use in these situations...

When I was in Florida on holiday most if the pro bands in the clubs and bars had their amps at the side of the stage mic'd up facing across the stage. This way the sound guy isn't getting too my much guitar level off the stage and you and the band get a good guitar sound on stage. I've. Been doing this recently and it works great,
The other thing I've been using is a plexi glass screen which also works quite well.

simonbeckwith

@jaysmith how you getting on with the Amplifire?

Reverend

professorben said:

jaysmith said:

Amplifire is coming next week. i played a gig with my other band last night , my valve amp mic'd up by the in house PA engineer and was told to keep my volume low as he would bring it through the PA instead... i tried to explain that valves need to be driven reasonably to sound good, i wasn't suggesting to play at deafening levels by no means... anyway i had a shite amp sound all night at a volume you could almost talk over.... this is another reason to get the Atomic... what is the point of lugging round a valve amp only to have it ticking over and not running properly... they just aren't a practical piece of equipment to use in these situations...

At that point you politely slap the sound engineer, point at the snare drum and say " I'll match my volume to that you arse" and if you need only a smidge through FOH that's what you do. 

Ive noticed that a lot of FOHare concerned about the balance of instruments but have absolutely no interest in whether they sound good or not.

simonbeckwith

Probably why so many people are leaning towards modellers. If youre forced to sacrifice somethijg is rather it be volume than the tone itself - nothing worse than playing an uninspiring gtr sound

mr-mac

amplifier was on my list before I got GSP1101 which also sounds seriously good direct to PA.  Hopefully get to try out an amplified at some point and compare them.  Heard good reports from someone local who's exact words were "The Amplifire is everything my eleven rack should have been"

simonbeckwith

They are very good

professorben

mr-mac said:

amplifier was on my list before I got GSP1101 which also sounds seriously good direct to PA.  Hopefully get to try out an amplified at some point and compare them.  Heard good reports from someone local who's exact words were "The Amplifire is everything my eleven rack should have been"

Interesting. 
I run an 11r currently, with a Valve Preamp, and bypass the cab sims.
Cant fault it.  

EricTheWeary

firepaulmusic said:

jaysmith said:

Amplifire is coming next week. i played a gig with my other band last night , my valve amp mic'd up by the in house PA engineer and was told to keep my volume low as he would bring it through the PA instead... i tried to explain that valves need to be driven reasonably to sound good, i wasn't suggesting to play at deafening levels by no means... anyway i had a shite amp sound all night at a volume you could almost talk over.... this is another reason to get the Atomic... what is the point of lugging round a valve amp only to have it ticking over and not running properly... they just aren't a practical piece of equipment to use in these situations...

When I was in Florida on holiday most if the pro bands in the clubs and bars had their amps at the side of the stage mic'd up facing across the stage. This way the sound guy isn't getting too my much guitar level off the stage and you and the band get a good guitar sound on stage. I've. Been doing this recently and it works great,
The other thing I've been using is a plexi glass screen which also works quite well.

I've seen a few bands doing this ( Joanne Shaw Taylor springs to mind) and presumably it doesn't blast out the front row either. Simple but seems to make sense. 

mr-mac

professorben said:

mr-mac said:

amplifier was on my list before I got GSP1101 which also sounds seriously good direct to PA.  Hopefully get to try out an amplified at some point and compare them.  Heard good reports from someone local who's exact words were "The Amplifire is everything my eleven rack should have been"

Interesting. 
I run an 11r currently, with a Valve Preamp, and bypass the cab sims.
Cant fault it.  

I guess he meant whole shabang done without valve pre