Steam Bending To Get Angled Headstock?

Nomad

Just musing on an idea...

Is it feasible to steam a neck blank cut to the approximate dimensions to set the angle of the headstock? Talking about a generally rectangular shape - carving and shaping would be done afterwards.

TTony

You can steam bend reasonably thin pieces of wood - for the sides of an acoustic - but I don't think it'd work for something as thick as a neck blank!

WezV

nah.

fairly sure you would create a weak point bending wood that thick... must be possible, but not on anormal bending iron... but the real issue is you have nothing to hold it in place so it would gradually unbend and probably take the neck shaft along for the ride

ICBM

No - but a properly-constructed laminate neck where the laminates are glued during the bending process would be extremely strong - that's how laminated chair legs and roof beams are made for example.

The laminated necks I know of are done with the laminations vertical though, like Martin's 'Stratabond' and the 70s Framus one. Not sure whether there's a structural reason for that or if it's just an extension of the traditional laminate neck method.

Nomad

Thanks chaps. It does seem that this is probably taking things too far. I'm trying to think of ways to make an angled headstock that doesn't have the inherent Gibson weakness that comes from cutting across the grain.

So, how about a 3-part laminate with the grain running vertically (from the fretboard through to the curve at the back of the neck, like this...

http://imgur.com/OJOtQl0.jpg

Thinking of maple in the middle and meranti either side.

olafgarten

Nomad said:

Thanks chaps. It does seem that this is probably taking things too far. I'm trying to think of ways to make an angled headstock that doesn't have the inherent Gibson weakness that comes from cutting across the grain.

So, how about a 3-part laminate with the grain running vertically (from the fretboard through to the curve at the back of the neck, like this...

http://imgur.com/OJOtQl0.jpg

Thinking of maple in the middle and meranti either side.

Just add a Volute. 

octatonic

You can bend wood that thick and a hell of a lot thicker- I have a friend who makes boat hulls by steam bending them.
It is an amazing thing to see.
But you cannot do it with a bending iron designed to bend bend acoustic guitar sides.
I wouldn't attempt to do it for an angled headstock though.

ICBM

olafgarten said:

Just add a Volute. 

Not effective, you see plenty of volute Gibsons broken too - even when they reduced the head angle by 3 degrees and used a 3-piece laminate. It was only when they switched to maple that they really stopped it.

WezV

Nomad said:

So, how about a 3-part laminate with the grain running vertically (from the fretboard through to the curve at the back of the neck, like this...

http://imgur.com/OJOtQl0.jpg

Thinking of maple in the middle and meranti either side.

That's a faily standard 3-piece neck.  Gibson did it in the 70's.  Many of us still do it now.   It does exactly what you need it to

ICBM

I've done a lot of searching now and I can't find a single example of anyone ever having done a horizontal-laminate guitar neck with a bent/angled headstock, so either there's a good structural reason why it won't work, or I've invented something!

WezV

probably just that bending is great for curves - bad for angles.

Sporky

Nomad said:

So, how about a 3-part laminate with the grain running vertically (from the fretboard through to the curve at the back of the neck, like this...

http://imgur.com/OJOtQl0.jpg

I may have missed something, but I think that'd be very, very weak. The grain should run along the neck, not through it front to back. No?

olafgarten

ICBM said:

I've done a lot of searching now and I can't find a single example of anyone ever having done a horizontal-laminate guitar neck with a bent/angled headstock, so either there's a good structural reason why it won't work, or I've invented something!

This guy has done a 5 piece laminate with a Scarf Joint. 

www.tundraman.com/Guitars/001/GuitarStock.php

ICBM

olafgarten said:

This guy has done a 5 piece laminate with a Scarf Joint. 

www.tundraman.com/Guitars/001/GuitarStock.php

That's not at all what I mean. That's still a vertical laminate with a joint.

What I mean is a horizontal laminate with a bend that follows the laminations, and no joint:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/49/7b/6f/497b6fa43ae9c0b8ebd7e1f8a485fc60.jpg

http://img.archiexpo.com/images_ae/photo-g/69720-9013885.jpg

As you can see it's immensely strong.

WezV said:

probably just that bending is great for curves - bad for angles.

You can get a reasonably sharp bend between two straight sections - imagine that chair leg but with only a 10º bend instead of 90º. With a modernistic design - something like that Millimetric guitar for example - that shouldn't be an issue. Obviously you aren't going to be able to quite duplicate a Gibson headstock with it - or not without then cutting away some of the layers and weakening it again.

I'd really like to try it, but I don't have the facilities to.

olafgarten

ICBM said:

olafgarten said:

This guy has done a 5 piece laminate with a Scarf Joint. 

www.tundraman.com/Guitars/001/GuitarStock.php

That's not at all what I mean. That's still a vertical laminate with a joint.

What I mean is a horizontal laminate with a bend that follows the laminations, and no joint:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/49/7b/6f/497b6fa43ae9c0b8ebd7e1f8a485fc60.jpg

http://img.archiexpo.com/images_ae/photo-g/69720-9013885.jpg

As you can see it's immensely strong.

WezV said:

probably just that bending is great for curves - bad for angles.

You can get a reasonably sharp bend between two straight sections - imagine that chair leg but with only a 10º bend instead of 90º. With a modernistic design - something like that Millimetric guitar for example - that shouldn't be an issue. Obviously you aren't going to be able to quite duplicate a Gibson headstock with it - or not without then cutting away some of the layers and weakening it again.

I'd really like to try it, but I don't have the facilities to.

OK, I misunderstood, for some reason I understood horizontal laminate as being glued together horizontally. 

Bridgehouse

WezV said:

probably just that bending is great for curves - bad for angles.

Oversize laminate, bent and then cut to an angle?

I know it's cold moulding but Fairey did it for their 60s powerboats - strong enough to survive full chat with a pair of 400hp V12s..