So... Tell me all about chord tone soloing

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HAL9000HAL9000 Frets: 9552
Heard the phrase but not really sure what it means although I think I can probably guess. Anyway, over to you...
I play guitar because I enjoy it rather than because I’m any good at it
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  • vizviz Frets: 10647
    edited January 2014
    Just means confine yourself to the notes in the triad of the chord underlying the music at the time. If you're playing a song that has the progression Em, D, C, D Em, then you play the E-G-B, D-F#-A, C-E-G, and back up again.

    By the way, you can immediately see how this progression works so well (and is the foundation of 95% of Iron Maiden songs), because all the triads use notes that are in the root key of Em, the relative minor of G major (E, F#, G, A, B, C, D, E).

    If you want to extend the chord tones to include the 7th, and still stay in the chord tones, it's good to know that the piece is not only in E minor, but it's in E Aeolian, which has a natural 7, so the D is Mixolydian, and the C is Lydian. You're therefore playing the I chord, the VII chord and the VI chord.

    (You know the E is minor, so it's either Aeolian, Dorian or Phrygian - if it were Dorian, it would have to have a C# chord not a C chord as the 3rd chord; it could be Phrygian, but then the D chord would have to be a D minor. But it's not, so the first chord is E Aeolian).

    So therefore the chord tones (including 7ths) for the progression are:

    E-G-B-D (Em7)
    D-F#-A-C (D7)
    C-E-G-B (CMaj7).

    Of course, there's no reason why you have to confine yourself to the chord tones, you can noodle away using all the notes of E Aeolian (which is the same as D mixolydian and C Lydian, just different starting points), but obviously accenting the relevant chord tones to align your solo to the underlying chord at the time.

    Your signature - is the the correct order for getting undressed too?
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • mike_lmike_l Frets: 5700

    @viz ; You're slightly wrong. It 97.6% of Iron maiden songs. The only other Keys I can think of the top of my head are Am and Dm, and quite often modulation between Em and Am (Ie The Trooper mostly Em, but second solo in Am)

    Use the same theory in Aminor (from Viz) for Stairway........ 

    Ringleader of the Cambridge cartel, pedal champ and king of the dirt boxes (down to 21) 

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  • vizviz Frets: 10647
    Lol I actually thought you might provide the correct figure! I was going through them from memory, there's certainly a lot!
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • mike_lmike_l Frets: 5700

    Fwiw the whole of A matter of life and death was Eminor, except one song, in Dminor........

     

     

     

    *Mike goes to find a life, gives up relies on a complete knowledge of IM songs to get through*

    Ringleader of the Cambridge cartel, pedal champ and king of the dirt boxes (down to 21) 

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  • vizviz Frets: 10647
    You get a wisdom if that helps.
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • mike_lmike_l Frets: 5700
    Thanks viz, still need a life though.......

    Ringleader of the Cambridge cartel, pedal champ and king of the dirt boxes (down to 21) 

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  • mike_lmike_l Frets: 5700

    Following on from @viz 's advice, try Infinite dreams

    Em7 - D -C 

    Ringleader of the Cambridge cartel, pedal champ and king of the dirt boxes (down to 21) 

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  • wordywordy Frets: 67

    I had a similar thread back in November.... you might want to have a look.

    http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/5504/how-to-go-from-licks-to-chord-tone-soloing#latest

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  • JAYJOJAYJO Frets: 1526
    Barret Tagliarino has a book Chord tone soloing (includes cd). May be useful to you also. 
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  • frankusfrankus Frets: 4719
    If you listen to T-Bone Walker, you'll hear he's playing chord tones.. and incidental notes, there's a history to playing lead guitar that isn't very old and isn't that amazing as you'd probably follow the same progression yourself if left to your own devices:

    1) Get given a song sheet - which is a sheet of chords about 1 minute before going on stage.
    2) Get told to play a solo over it, part way through the song.
    3) Panic a little and play notes from the chord patterns you've busked for the previous two verses.
    4) Survive.
    5) Take the song sheet home.
    6) Remember the good bits and add some more twiddles.
    7) Return and play the solo again the next day with a little more embelishment.

    This is exactly what Charlie Christian did. You have a look at his transcriptions and you'll see they all revolve around E, A and C barre chords. He added grace notes around the chord patterns.

    Want the final proof of this? Tommy Flannagan playing piano on John Coltrane's Giant Steps - now, Coltrane had given himself a 3 month headstart learning this tune - if you listen to the outtakes CD you'll hear Coltrane playing the same licks again and again in different sequences (it's actually a master class in lick building)... but the rest of the band had the chart shoved under their noses minutes before the track was recorded. Giant Steps is a progression of major thirds (giant steps) that means the piece changes key every 2 bars. So when Tommy gets this thrown to him, he struggles at first but then goes to chord tones and creates a masterful solo... so much so it kinda reminds me of Thelonius Monk in parts.

    But chord tones are a guarantee of nothing, by themselves, the knack to using them is timing, they get used on the strong beats of a bar - 2 and 4 in Jazz in a 4/4 time or 1 and 3 in a Latin 4/4 time.. on the weaker notes you can pretty much play any other note..
    A sig-nat-eur? What am I meant to use this for ffs?! Is this thing recording?
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  • JalapenoJalapeno Frets: 6378
    @Frankus by "weaker notes" - you mean off-beat ?  Then I totally agree - play anything, no matter how wierd as long as you resolve to a chord tone for the on-beat (best sounding ones are the 3rd and 7th). For real buttock clenching tension delay resolution to end of the bar, or even end of the progression.

    Em D7 CMaj is a iii II7 I progression - you can play either Dm or D7 (or both) - it is a ii that is Dominant rather than Minor - happens a lot in jazz.

    It would be easier to play a ii V7 I progression (Dm G7 C) - you can then play all sorts of games - play G7 over Dm and vice versa, and playing the chord tones half a bar before the chord etc
    Imagine something sharp and witty here ......

    Feedback
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  • frankusfrankus Frets: 4719
    yup I meant weaker beats, no point wasting a chord tone on them ;)
    A sig-nat-eur? What am I meant to use this for ffs?! Is this thing recording?
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  • HAL9000HAL9000 Frets: 9552
    Thanks for the replies. Sounds like I've always been a bit guilty of chord tone soloing then - had just never realised it had a name... Where's the facepalm button when you need it eh?
    I play guitar because I enjoy it rather than because I’m any good at it
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  • mike_lmike_l Frets: 5700

    @HAL9000 ; I'm a bit like that, always aim to finish a lick on the root note of the underlying chord. :-/

    Mostly by luck, rather than judgement.

    Ringleader of the Cambridge cartel, pedal champ and king of the dirt boxes (down to 21) 

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  • frankusfrankus Frets: 4719
    HAL9000 said:
    Thanks for the replies. Sounds like I've always been a bit guilty of chord tone soloing then - had just never realised it had a name... Where's the facepalm button when you need it eh?
    There's no guilt in it - it's natural and it's musical and it doesn't involve the craziness of woodshedding... where people invent a lick without a band there and then stuff up trying to shoe-horn it into a tune - they either lose their place in the music, fail to keep time or create a patchy solo with dashes of brilliance or more often dashes of fumbled complicated stuff (I've been there, I expect I'm not alone).

    Here, I'll cheer you up a little - if you learn the Bebop scale (Major scale with an added flat 7) it's an 8 note scale and you'll play chord tones if you play up and down the scale starting on the first beat of a bar :) that's how bebop started :)


    A sig-nat-eur? What am I meant to use this for ffs?! Is this thing recording?
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