Current Les Paul Customs

Fellix

richardhomer said:

I'm something of a Luddite - but given that even a £500 Taylor acoustic has an Ebony board - why on earth can't Gibson put one on it's must prestigious solid guitar?

Taylor I understand pretty much control the supply of it - but are taking their environmental responsibilities seriously.

It can only be a cost issue with Gibson...

Didn't they loose most of their wood stock from when they go raided that time when they had dodgy Rosewood supplies?? I don't know why it's still being used on some of the LP Customs. The baked Maple my Classic Custom has is really nice and dark after it had several coatings of "Lemon Oil" . It really feels as close to Ebony/Rosewood as I could tell. 

A5D5E5

Guitarists are such Luddites.  If something didn't exist in the 1950s then it can't possibly be better than something that did.  There is absolutely no reason why new materials can't be better than the ones Gibson and Fender had available 60 years ago.

They might not be of course, but to simply dismiss them simply because they are are different is absurd.

To answer the  OP - this might be the only chance you get to buy your holy grail - it has to be something you will love and if you have any doubts at all don't go there as you will never quite bond with your guitar.  If that means buying a 2nd hand guitar to get an ebony board then do that - you will love it more as a result irrespective of the fact that somebody else got to play it before you.

Voxman

Its more about future desirability and residual values which are impacted by buyer perception rather than inherrent quality. If residual value is not of concern, then go for it.  But if it is, be aware that richlite guitars may be perceived as less desirable with lower residual values, regardless of how unfair or unjustified that might be.

robdynamite

Thanks very much, I realise this can be a touchy subject in some circles for various reasons. I guess I am sort of concerned with residual value. Because although I don't have any intention of selling it, it is a very expensive purchase (for me anyway) and I'd hate to think I've bought something that could retain it's value and it hasn't, somewhere in the back of my mind at least. If you get what I mean?

dindude

richardhomer said:

I'm something of a Luddite - but given that even a £500 Taylor acoustic has an Ebony board - why on earth can't Gibson put one on it's must prestigious solid guitar?

Taylor I understand pretty much control the supply of it - but are taking their environmental responsibilities seriously.

It can only be a cost issue with Gibson...

Spot on.

Gibson decide to moan and complain when caught out rather than proactively manage against the situation.

Taylor take it into their own hands.

I wonder which company has the better leadership!

I've nothing against ritchlite but I don't think it belongs on a high end guitar. Fretboards have a not inconsiderable influence on tone, not just feel.

peteri

My advice, go to good dealers - there are plenty around and play lots.

I believe there is significant value in the 80's/early 90's models, these will surely at some point in the future see rising values because of wood shortages, and avoid the current Gibson era controversy.

Also, don't discount early 70's Customs. I have one - and it's my dream Les Paul, just love it.

Any dealer will take a credit card, so don't limit yourself too much

SexualChocolate

Just to add another voice to this, the best thing to do is get out and play a load of guitars. It sounds like this is a big purchase for you so don't rush into anything.

I can't comment on the richlite thing as I haven't played a guitar with a richlite fretboard. I'm not against the idea, again it depends on how it feels. Don't pay too much attention to opinions on the internet (including mine!) and try some stuff out.

goat

dindude said:

richardhomer said:

I'm something of a Luddite - but given that even a £500 Taylor acoustic has an Ebony board - why on earth can't Gibson put one on it's must prestigious solid guitar?

Taylor I understand pretty much control the supply of it - but are taking their environmental responsibilities seriously.

It can only be a cost issue with Gibson...

Spot on.

Gibson decide to moan and complain when caught out rather than proactively manage against the situation.

Taylor take it into their own hands.

I wonder which company has the better leadership!

I've nothing against ritchlite but I don't think it belongs on a high end guitar. Fretboards have a not inconsiderable influence on tone, not just feel.

The Gibson raid was really strange though, they werent "caught out" as such. All the seized wood was returned. They had to shut down production and had IT seized too which cost them money. Obviously Henry is mad as a trout and he was ranting about Obama and unions etc, but I just dont think theyll risk dabbling in any protected wood at the main factory in Nashville.

Fellix

robdynamite said:

Thanks very much, I realise this can be a touchy subject in some circles for various reasons. I guess I am sort of concerned with residual value. Because although I don't have any intention of selling it, it is a very expensive purchase (for me anyway) and I'd hate to think I've bought something that could retain it's value and it hasn't, somewhere in the back of my mind at least. If you get what I mean?

When I tried out a 2016 Gibson LP Custom at the end of the summer, I was really impressed by the guitar (compared to the 2015 Studio I had for 3 weeks before I sold it on as it was such a shite year with all the changes they made) but I just didn't feel comfortable spending initially £3300 for it. They lowered the price down to £2700 pretty quickly, but I decided to against it as I had a 1979 Les Paul Deluxe inbound and I wanted to get myself an American Strat as well.

When I traded the LP Deluxe for a Strat Plus Deluxe, I started to look at getting myself a Les Paul Custom on the 2nd hand market as the guitar store I tried the "normal" Custom had told me that Gibson no longer made the Custom Lite models, which I was looking at due to the lower cost. (I think they were trying to get me to buy their £2700 Custom by making me believe their was no other option). It was while searching online for a Custom Lite that I learnt about the Classic Custom, which were only around £1200-£1400 2nd hand. The differences between a Classic Custom and Custom seem next to nothing as far as my abilities go. It lacks binding on the back of the body, they built the Classic Custom on the main production line and not the custom shop "area" and the fretboard is baked maple. They only did them around 2011/12  and they came with nickel/chrome hardware and not gold. The baked maple fretboard gets darker and darker the more you oil it and mine looks and feels more like Ebony than anything else. 

If you are going to struggle to cover the cost of the "normal" Custom, I think going the same route as I have by getting the Classic Custom really makes sense. I swear the tiny physical differences between the two models does not make the normal Custom feel, sound, look any different. The difference in price between the two versions is crazy and I'm glad by dumb luck I learnt about the Classic Custom when I did.  

robdynamite

Cheers for that, I've actually been looking at the classic customs since they came out as a friend of mine picked up the goldtop version.

But I've played and owned a fair share of guitars over my years of playing and like I say, a white custom is something of a grail for me so I know if I opted for something else, I'd still pine for the custom. So this time, I'm certain on scratching the itch.

Fellix

robdynamite said:

Cheers for that, I've actually been looking at the classic customs since they came out as a friend of mine picked up the goldtop version.

But I've played and owned a fair share of guitars over my years of playing and like I say, a white custom is something of a grail for me so I know if I opted for something else, I'd still pine for the custom. So this time, I'm certain on scratching the itch.

For me it was all about the Ebony and Gold version of the LP Custom. The LP Deluxe I had was in Ebony, but had cream plastics and amber speed knob. I tried to make it look as close as I could to a Custom by putting gold parts on and black speed knobs. I loved how the guitar felt and sounded, but it didn't look like a Ebony Custom and the mini humbuckers made the proportion seem wrong. 

I'm not sure I am interpreting your post correctly, but are you saying even a "Classic Custom" is not close enough to the normal "Custom" ? Bar the binding not being on the back of the body and it being built on the main production line, everything else is identical to the much more costly custom shop custom. The weight and feel of the Classic Custom was the same as the more expensive version that I tried. With you going for a white body model, the lack of binding on the rear of the main body is even less obvious. 

The one thing I was stunned about with the "Classic Custom" was just how brilliant the 57 classic humbuckers were. By far the best alternative to the 490/498 humbuckers you normally get on the 2016 Custom.

robdynamite

yeah, it's exactly that.

I've have always seen a LP custom as something I've always wanted since starting to play, my favourite guitarists played them and I've always lusted for one. Now I have the chance to make the dream a reality and I know if I got a classic custom, I'd still forever be thinking "I wish I'd just bought the custom." See in some respects it's not entirely about the costs.

A classic custom is still an imitation, this might sound a bit ridiculous to some people, but I'm going to assume a lot of people on this forum understand me? haha.

Fellix

robdynamite said:

yeah, it's exactly that.

I've have always seen a LP custom as something I've always wanted since starting to play, my favourite guitarists played them and I've always lusted for one. Now I have the chance to make the dream a reality and I know if I got a classic custom, I'd still forever be thinking "I wish I'd just bought the custom." See in some respects it's not entirely about the costs.

A classic custom is still an imitation, this might sound a bit ridiculous to some people, but I'm going to assume a lot of people on this forum understand me? haha.

You've hurt my feelings now. It is a proper custom (Stamps foot on the floor)

Blaendulais

Fellix said:

robdynamite said:

yeah, it's exactly that.

I've have always seen a LP custom as something I've always wanted since starting to play, my favourite guitarists played them and I've always lusted for one. Now I have the chance to make the dream a reality and I know if I got a classic custom, I'd still forever be thinking "I wish I'd just bought the custom." See in some respects it's not entirely about the costs.

A classic custom is still an imitation, this might sound a bit ridiculous to some people, but I'm going to assume a lot of people on this forum understand me? haha.

You've hurt my feelings now. It is a proper custom (Stamps foot on the floor)

In the same way a mexican strat is a strat 

Fellix

Blaendulais said:

Fellix said:

robdynamite said:

yeah, it's exactly that.

I've have always seen a LP custom as something I've always wanted since starting to play, my favourite guitarists played them and I've always lusted for one. Now I have the chance to make the dream a reality and I know if I got a classic custom, I'd still forever be thinking "I wish I'd just bought the custom." See in some respects it's not entirely about the costs.

A classic custom is still an imitation, this might sound a bit ridiculous to some people, but I'm going to assume a lot of people on this forum understand me? haha.

You've hurt my feelings now. It is a proper custom (Stamps foot on the floor)

In the same way a mexican strat is a strat 

Or American Strat V's Custom Shop Strat?  The Mexican Strat's are usually a less refined with the more basic version, but it seems the Classic Custom is really close to the Custom Shop "Custom" ?

I don't know anything about the Gibson Custom Shop and bar the binding on the back of the body, I am unaware of anything different in the building blocks used to make either guitar. Both guitars are very weighty. Does the Classic Custom have more pieces of wood to construct the body etc?

p90fool

SexualChocolate said:

Just to add another voice to this, the best thing to do is get out and play a load of guitars. It sounds like this is a big purchase for you so don't rush into anything.

I can't comment on the richlite thing as I haven't played a guitar with a richlite fretboard. I'm not against the idea, again it depends on how it feels. Don't pay too much attention to opinions on the internet (including mine!) and try some stuff out.

Whilst your advice is eminently sensible I'm giving you a Wisdom primarily for your most excellent user name. 

 

Blaendulais

Fellix said:

Blaendulais said:

Fellix said:

robdynamite said:

yeah, it's exactly that.

I've have always seen a LP custom as something I've always wanted since starting to play, my favourite guitarists played them and I've always lusted for one. Now I have the chance to make the dream a reality and I know if I got a classic custom, I'd still forever be thinking "I wish I'd just bought the custom." See in some respects it's not entirely about the costs.

A classic custom is still an imitation, this might sound a bit ridiculous to some people, but I'm going to assume a lot of people on this forum understand me? haha.

You've hurt my feelings now. It is a proper custom (Stamps foot on the floor)

In the same way a mexican strat is a strat 

Or American Strat V's Custom Shop Strat?  The Mexican Strat's are usually a less refined with the more basic version, but it seems the Classic Custom is really close to the Custom Shop "Custom" ?

I don't know anything about the Gibson Custom Shop and bar the binding on the back of the body, I am unaware of anything different in the building blocks used to make either guitar. Both guitars are very weighty. Does the Classic Custom have more pieces of wood to construct the body etc?

To be hones Fellix the one i tried was as good as my custom so.......!

xscaramanga

I bought a 2013 custom on eBay recently. Didn't realise it was Richlite until after I'd bought it. Now I have it, I really don't care. I like that it's more environmentally friendly, I like the way it looks, and the guitar sounds wicked. Even the old and jaded tech I use called it "quite a nice guitar". 

Can't speak for the general build quality as that's the only one I've played, but mine's great. I've owned a Historic Black Beauty and I prefer this guitar. It's lighter (mostly because of weight relief), and more resonant, and I much prefer the slimmer neck profile.

And any anxiety over the resale value and/or quality of guitars with Richlite boards comes largely from people stoking that anxiety on forums, often without actually having played one. 

Voxman

jonnyscaramanga said:

Didn't realise it was Richlite until after I'd bought it.

And any anxiety over the resale value and/or quality of guitars with Richlite boards comes largely from people stoking that anxiety on forums, often without actually having played one. 

No, it's nothing whatsoever to do with 'stoking' anxiety, how it plays, feels, or sounds - I'm sure it's great.  But resale value will be noticeably less with a Richlite board as compared to an equivalent Custom with an ebony board. And I think if you were being totally honest with yourself I truly believe that you'd prefer to have found out that it had an ebony board.

As has been said, there is nothing wrong with Richlite per-se  but it should not be used on a Custom.  Gibson screwed up, and are doing the best they can re damage limitation to extol the virtues of richlite - I know it's not a message you want to hear because you have a Custom with a Richlite board but it is a fact of life that certain manufacturing changes can impact on values. LP's during the Norlin period are generally less desireable, pre CBS and late 60's Fenders are more desirable than modern versions, and LP Customs with an Ebony board are already more desirable than those with a Richlite board.  Sorry about that, but it's the truth - doesn't mean it's not a great guitar - I'm only referring to residual values on resale.  

Fellix

This evening my friend and I, put a fresh set of D'addario NYXL strings on and gave the guitar and baked maple fretboard a really good cleaning. I then "lemon" oiled and I was still amazed at how wonderfully smooth, with a deep dark black/brown colour.  I really like how the baked maple board feels and looks so much like a nice slab of Ebony. I guess they only did the "Classic Customs" as a stop gap after they have their wood supply removed. I guess the process is slow and eats into profit margins.

On what is a flagship model, Gibson should be using very high quality materials, especially when the normal RRP is £3000+ , it does seem like a big pisstake by Gibson.