Just done my first neck repair!

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I am feeling pretty pleased with myself having just finished my first snapped neck repair. Nothing spectacularly impressive about the guitar in question, just a cheap Epi LP Junior special with a bolt-on neck and wrap-over bridge/tailpiece..

One of the kids at work had found it in one of the practice rooms with the headstock snapped off but still attached by the fretboard. Fortunately it was a pretty clean wound so I was able to just glue it and clamp it. I left it to set for a day before cleaning it up and I have sanded and buffed it to a very nice, smooth satin finish. Even if I say so myself, it looks a very neat fix! I also took the opportunity with the neck off to sand down all the thick and bumpy paint in the neck pocket. 

Strung up, the guitar actually feels better and the intonation is actually spot on... probably a fluke.

The big question is, how long before it gets knocked over and snaps again!
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Comments

  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71953
    What glue did you use?

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    dogload said:
    I am feeling pretty pleased with myself having just finished my first snapped neck repair. Nothing spectacularly impressive about the guitar in question, just a cheap Epi LP Junior special with a bolt-on neck and wrap-over bridge/tailpiece..

    One of the kids at work had found it in one of the practice rooms with the headstock snapped off but still attached by the fretboard. Fortunately it was a pretty clean wound so I was able to just glue it and clamp it. I left it to set for a day before cleaning it up and I have sanded and buffed it to a very nice, smooth satin finish. Even if I say so myself, it looks a very neat fix! I also took the opportunity with the neck off to sand down all the thick and bumpy paint in the neck pocket. 

    Strung up, the guitar actually feels better and the intonation is actually spot on... probably a fluke.

    The big question is, how long before it gets knocked over and snaps again!
    If you've used Titebond and done it well then the join will be stronger than the wood that surrounds it.
    If it does break again then it probably won't break at the join.

    If you've used PVA then it is a bit of a gamble.
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  • dogloaddogload Frets: 1495
    I just had to go with what was at hand which is Evo-Stik wood glue. It doesn't say what it is, just has a logo saying 'Resin W 100% bond'. 

    If it goes again, it goes - the official line was 'bin it'! 

    In the past I would have taken it to the DT technician who was always happy to do stuff like this but he retired and his replacement is a bit unwilling to help out. 'I'm not a luthier' he says. So I am having to learn the ways of the wood on the fly and on the cheap!
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71953
    dogload said:
    I just had to go with what was at hand which is Evo-Stik wood glue. It doesn't say what it is, just has a logo saying 'Resin W 100% bond'.
    PVA. It's claimed to be "stronger than the wood itself", but this is only true under some conditions.

    The problem is that it will slowly 'creep' under high 'peel' loads - which a split in a guitar neck is pretty much the perfect example of - and the joint will probably open up again. I learned this the hard way with the first couple of headstock repairs I did.

    If it does, probably the only thing you can do to repair it is to *melt* the PVA using heat, which will allow you to clamp it back tight again. You can't remove the glue and use something better once it's soaked into the wood. Melting it might be difficult without damaging the finish though.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    Pretty sure Evostick is a modified PVA.

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  • dogloaddogload Frets: 1495
    ICBM said:
    dogload said:
    I just had to go with what was at hand which is Evo-Stik wood glue. It doesn't say what it is, just has a logo saying 'Resin W 100% bond'.
    PVA. It's claimed to be "stronger than the wood itself", but this is only true under some conditions.

    The problem is that it will slowly 'creep' under high 'peel' loads - which a split in a guitar neck is pretty much the perfect example of - and the joint will probably open up again. I learned this the hard way with the first couple of headstock repairs I did.

    If it does, probably the only thing you can do to repair it is to *melt* the PVA using heat, which will allow you to clamp it back tight again. You can't remove the glue and use something better once it's soaked into the wood. Melting it might be difficult without damaging the finish though.
    Ah, bummer!

    Well at least it's only a shitty guitar. Can you recommend a good brand of glue?
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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    Titebond.
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  • dogloaddogload Frets: 1495
    octatonic said:
    Titebond.
    Ah, yes - you mentioned that earlier. Thanks. :)
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  • SteveRobinsonSteveRobinson Frets: 6913
    tFB Trader
    If this break was a case of the scarf joint failing rather than a wood break, as is often the case with Epiphone guitars, combined with the fact it's a cheap instrument, I'd have been tempted to use epoxy for the repair.
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  • WezVWezV Frets: 16541
    dogload said:
    octatonic said:
    Titebond.
    Ah, yes - you mentioned that earlier. Thanks. :)


    More importantly , Titebond Original.  The red one.



    Because I hate it when I recommend titebond original and people turn up with Titebond 2 or 3 assuming its better.

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  • impmannimpmann Frets: 12641
    WezV said:
    dogload said:
    octatonic said:
    Titebond.
    Ah, yes - you mentioned that earlier. Thanks. :)


    More importantly , Titebond Original.  The red one.



    Because I hate it when I recommend titebond original and people turn up with Titebond 2 or 3 assuming its better.

    THIS


    Never Ever Bloody Anything Ever.

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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71953
    If this break was a case of the scarf joint failing rather than a wood break, as is often the case with Epiphone guitars, combined with the fact it's a cheap instrument, I'd have been tempted to use epoxy for the repair.
    Same here - but as with wood glue there's epoxy and epoxy… especially if you're buying Araldite which is the most commonly available.

    The quick-set stuff is completely useless for this sort of work. The high-strength slow-set is perfect though - it works best if heated with a hairdryer or a bench lamp so it becomes thin and transparent - it will flow better into the crack, soak into the wood and set harder and stronger. I heat the joint rather than the glue itself, both before and after clamping.

    Unfortunately it's too late for that - you'll never get the PVA out of the joint, and epoxy won't stick to it.

    To be honest if it opens up again you've very little to lose by learning how to do a proper splint joint… which will hold, even if you've had to re-melt a PVA repair.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • SteveRobinsonSteveRobinson Frets: 6913
    edited December 2016 tFB Trader
    ICBM said:

    The quick-set [Araldite] is completely useless for this sort of work. 
    Indeed. Not only is it less strong but the open time isn't sufficient to get everything lined up and clamped.

    On the rare occasions I use Araldite I mask the surrounding area with Copydex.
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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    edited December 2016
    WezV said:
    dogload said:
    octatonic said:
    Titebond.
    Ah, yes - you mentioned that earlier. Thanks.


    More importantly , Titebond Original.  The red one.

    Because I hate it when I recommend titebond original and people turn up with Titebond 2 or 3 assuming its better.

    Oh yes, I've had that too.

    Think of Titebond as Back to the Future of glues, not the Godfather.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71953
    SteveRobinson said:

    On the rare occasions I use Araldite I mask the surrounding area with Copydex.
    Neat idea, I'll remember that! I use tape but it's not always easy to get it into the right places and tight without a lot of faffing.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • dogloaddogload Frets: 1495
    Thanks for the feedback guys.

    It's a bit disappointing that I'm looking at the thing failing but hopefully I will have some idea of how to deal with it. TBH, as I said it was heading for the bin, so it'll be no loss to experiment on. @ICBM what do you mean by splint joint? 
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  • I have a pot of Titebond here which I bought because I knew it was the best stuff, although I've never had to make a serious guitar repair. Now it looks like PVA, it smells like PVA and it feels like PVA. How is it better? Just curious.
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  • cruxiformcruxiform Frets: 2533
    I used Evo Stik Wood Glue on the repair on my Ibanez RG470. I would have used Titebond if I had known but it is still holding strong.

    http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/39788/repairing-ibanez-rg470-neck-pictures#latest
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  • KalimnaKalimna Frets: 1534
    Titebond is a modified class of PVA, called 'aliphatic resin' glue. I dont know the specifics of why it is less appropriate, but I suspect it is to do with molecular adhesion, softness of cured glue, ability to have 'invisible' glue line amongst others.
    Given a perfectly executed joint, it is unlikely that bonding strength would be an issue, but perfect joints are not straight forward on finished items.
    If you take a look on luthier forums, for instance the MIMF, then hot hide glue is almost universally recommended for luthiery, both primary build and repair for two reasons :-1: 
    1 - it dries crystal clear and very hard (for acoustically superior joints, so the argument goes)
    2 - it is easily repairable (new hot hide glue will adhere well to old hot hide glue, which cannot be said for PVA/aliphatic resins), and 're-jointable' with the application of heat.

    Cheers,
    Adam
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  • WezVWezV Frets: 16541
    I have a pot of Titebond here which I bought because I knew it was the best stuff, although I've never had to make a serious guitar repair. Now it looks like PVA, it smells like PVA and it feels like PVA. How is it better? Just curious.
    You should have noticed it's a creamy yellow rather than white. And dries much harder.  

    It also only has a shelf life of about a year, so if you bought it a while back then ditch it.
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