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Berlin lorry attack

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  • LoobsLoobs Frets: 3831
    edited December 2016
    Yo, I'm fine, thanks @Gassage ;;;

    I was in the cinema last night when it happened and had about 25 whatsapps asking if I was ok, my girlfriend too. We knew immediately something bad had happened. 

    I was also working right opposite the site this morning, was able to look down on it from a balcony. The whole world's press is there. 
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  • AlnicoAlnico Frets: 4616
    @DLM are you anywhere near this?
    (Totally forgotten which part of Germany you're in??)

    Hope you're alright man?
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  • AlnicoAlnico Frets: 4616
    edited December 2016
    On Bastille day this hit me hard. Now I've got it all over again.

    I know intimately what the weight and force of a moving HGV feels like.
    To see that in my mind ploughing through people is sickening.

    This is terrible.
    I'm lost for words.
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  • randellarandella Frets: 4086
    Rocker said:
    The German police arrested the suspect. In France he probably would be dead. Here he would be out on bail having been granted free legal aid...
    No he wouldn't.  He'd be in a police cell facing the anti-terrorism lot exactly as I'm sure he is in Germany.

    Frankly I'm glad the guy's alive solely so he can fucking well face the consequences of what he's done.  Utterly devastating, I can't bring myself to watch the news reports.  No-one deserves this in any town anywhere.
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  • fretmeisterfretmeister Frets: 23906
    Rocker said:
    The German police arrested the suspect. In France he probably would be dead. Here he would be out on bail having been granted free legal aid...
    No he wouldn't.

    Yes he would get legal aid, and that is the right thing to happen. EVERYBODY deserves representation.
    The rules completely prevent the granting of bail in murder cases.

    So stop making shit up. It's pathetic.
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  • Rocker said:
    The German police arrested the suspect. In France he probably would be dead. Here he would be out on bail having been granted free legal aid...

    --- complete and utter bullshit. Have a word with yourself ffs. 
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  • randellarandella Frets: 4086


    Yes he would get legal aid, and that is the right thing to happen. EVERYBODY deserves representation.
    I entirely agree.  Remove this tenet and it's a tiny but significant step down to the sort of level of 'justice' these maniacs operate at.
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  • StrangefanStrangefan Frets: 5845
    edited December 2016
    Rocker said:
    The German police arrested the suspect. In France he probably would be dead. Here he would be out on bail having been granted free legal aid...
    No he wouldn't.

    Yes he would get legal aid, and that is the right thing to happen. EVERYBODY deserves representation.
    The rules completely prevent the granting of bail in murder cases.

    So stop making shit up. It's pathetic.
    Everybody deserves representation , I dont think so so some complete cock end destroys the lives of many and negatively impacts their entire families, having kids now growing up with out one or two parents, one less income ,potential onset of mental health and depression, and the perp deserves to have someone "represent" him, sorry utter horse poo(IMO) this is whats wrong with this country, this attitude and the holy grail of Human rights, if you commit an atrocity then you deserve to die , simple as.
    Not live in a prison draining  taxes.

    Bring back Capital Punishment.:)
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  • GassageGassage Frets: 30824
    Loobs said:
    Yo, I'm fine, thanks @Gassage ;;;

    I was in the cinema last night when it happened and had about 25 whatsapps asking if I was ok, my girlfriend too. We knew immediately something bad had happened. 

    I was also working right opposite the site this morning, was able to look down on it from a balcony. The whole world's press is there. 
    I'm not sure I could look. Honestly.

    *An Official Foo-Approved guitarist since Sept 2023.

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  • Nothing like a tragedy for letting people embarrass themselves. 
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  • ChalkyChalky Frets: 6807
    Well this thread went downhill fast, didn't it?
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  • fretmeisterfretmeister Frets: 23906
    Rocker said:
    The German police arrested the suspect. In France he probably would be dead. Here he would be out on bail having been granted free legal aid...
    No he wouldn't.

    Yes he would get legal aid, and that is the right thing to happen. EVERYBODY deserves representation.
    The rules completely prevent the granting of bail in murder cases.

    So stop making shit up. It's pathetic.
    Everybody deserves representation , are you serious? so some complete cock end destroys the lives of many and negatively impacts their entire families, having kids grow up with out parents, one less income ,potential onset of mental health and depression, and the perp deserves to have someone "represent" him, sorry utter horse poo this is whats wrong with this country, this attitude and the holy grail of Human rights, if you commit an atrocity then you deserve to die , simple as.
    Not live in a prison draining our taxes.

    Bring back Capital Punishment.
    In words of as few syllables as possible.

    Everyone is innocent until proven guilty.

    The representation is NOT just the for the benefit of the accused. It is also there to make sure the prosecution does their job properly and within the law. To make sure the prosecution (the massive power of the state) and any prosecution witnesses are actually telling the truth without embellishment or bias. It also tests inconsistencies in evidence, even the honest differences between witness evidence.

    A guilty verdict WITH competent representation gives confidence in that verdict. Without representation, without the state's evidence being tested, and the prosecutors work being scrutinised there can be no confidence in a verdict.

    Those who complain about everyone having representation are those who forget an equally important element of it - it makes sure the right man has been charged, and the right man has been convicted.

    I know what the usual response is - "it's obvious they did it" and "they pleaded guilty" - doesn't matter. The process applies to all prosecutions. And even in a guilty plea there is still the issue of the proper and proportionate punishment. Proper representation stops a person being locked up for the max 14 years for stealing baby food because that would not be proportionate. It ensures that any relevant history of the defendant is known before a sentence is decided on.

    As a result, proper representation is a benefit to the rest of us. It makes sure that when we lock someone up for ever it is for the right reasons and not because of poor evidence, or biased witnesses or simple old fashioned human error. If a person is to be denied their liberty until the day they die, then I damn well want to know the procedure was followed properly and the evidence was tested and found to support that. It lets me sleep at night knowing that if a person gets a whole life tariff that punishment being IN MY NAME AND YOURS, was found to be the correct one after careful consideration.


    And when the penalty is a whole life tariff, the need for proper representation is the strongest of all.


    As for the death penalty? Why does the Court of Appeal and the Criminal Cases Review Commission exist?


    Mainly?

    No idea? Didn;t think so.

    It's not because of bias, or bent coppers, or thick juries, or dodgy lawyers, or lying witnesses.

    It exists because humans make mistakes, and humans make a lot of them. The death penalty is final, without hope of rectification if an error is found later. Even a whole life tariff can be changed if there has been a miscarriage of justice. Capital punishment cannot.

    The morality of the death penalty is irrelevant. before it can be applied safely there must be no more errors. That will never happen and so there should never be a punishment that is beyond review.


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  • blobbblobb Frets: 2914
    More and more I become convinced of how great God is.
    Feelin' Reelin' & Squeelin'
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  • fretmeisterfretmeister Frets: 23906
    Oh look.

    German Police have arrested the wrong man.

    https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article160462226/Berliner-Polizei-Wir-haben-den-falschen-Mann.html?wtrid=socialmedia.socialflow....socialflow_facebook


    Good job he wasn't executed without due process then.

    Are the knobheads getting the point yet?
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  • DLMDLM Frets: 2513
    Alnico said:
    @DLM are you anywhere near this?
    (Totally forgotten which part of Germany you're in??)

    Hope you're alright man?

    @Alnico

    Other end of the country, chap. :) I left the capital permanently a decade ago. Very sad to leave, I still miss it, what a wonderful and fascinating city. I needed a better job, though, and I'd loved the Hofftoberfest at first sight. Shame about the cost of living here, though Berlin is doing its level best to catch up...

    Briefly saw some of the carnage on an FB livestream last night, right after it happened.

    It was just as @Loobs described when we had that shooting incident down here earlier in the year; I was blithely oblivious until my sis texted me out of the blue asking if I was OK. Fortunately, when she did so I was only ten steps from my door, miles away from the scenes of both the crime and the subsequent stampedes.

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  • AlnicoAlnico Frets: 4616
    DLM said:
    Alnico said:
    @DLM are you anywhere near this?
    (Totally forgotten which part of Germany you're in??)

    Hope you're alright man?

    @Alnico

    Other end of the country, chap. :) I left the capital permanently a decade ago. Very sad to leave, I still miss it, what a wonderful and fascinating city. I needed a better job, though, and I'd loved the Hofftoberfest at first sight. Shame about the cost of living here, though Berlin is doing its level best to catch up...

    Briefly saw some of the carnage on an FB livestream last night, right after it happened.

    It was just as @Loobs described when we had that shooting incident down here earlier in the year; I was blithely oblivious until my sis texted me out of the blue asking if I was OK. Fortunately, when she did so I was only ten steps from my door, miles away from the scenes of both the crime and the subsequent stampedes.

    Glad to hear it man.
    Thanks for letting us know.
    I'm still just lost for words.
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 24601
    edited December 2016
    They've just confirmed that the truck was stolen from Poland and Polish driver got killed - body has been found in the lorry. If that's true it can be a spark for already very tense situation within Polish nationalists. 
    Suspect was registered as a refugee on February this year.
    How do you know? Poor press reporting with the exception of the Times - the perpetrator is still at large. The German police arrested a Pakistani national but have since confirmed he has nothing to do with it.

    The objective of attacks like these is to spark a holy war between Muslims and Christians - sow fear, division and hatred throughout Europe. We should resist this and be careful what we say online as it will only incentivise others to do something similar and embolden the right which will look to make political capital and may also decide to retaliate.

    What's needed are moderate voices and calm, especially online. Trust Farage to jump in with his size 12 boots - his views are not what we need.

    Our thoughts should be with those who died needlessly whilst out enjoying themselves. RIP.


    Remember, it's easier to criticise than create!
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  • Rocker said:
    The German police arrested the suspect. In France he probably would be dead. Here he would be out on bail having been granted free legal aid...
    Sounds like a Britain first post 
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  • GassageGassage Frets: 30824
    Fretwired said:

     Trust Farage to jump in with his size 12 boots - his views are not what we need.

    I suspect he's nearer a size 4.

    *An Official Foo-Approved guitarist since Sept 2023.

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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 24601
    Rocker said:
    The German police arrested the suspect. In France he probably would be dead. Here he would be out on bail having been granted free legal aid...
    Then they'd have killed an innocent man.

    Remember, it's easier to criticise than create!
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